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Country Discussion Topics
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Too interesting to leave at the bottom
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~Lenore    Posted 02-25-2004 at 16:45:17       [Reply]  [No Email]


REt    Posted 02-25-2004 at 19:20:32       [Reply]  [No Email]
You know , I don't often agree with you, or Paula either, but there is no basis at all for not thinking this country was not founded on christian principals. They came from a christian country, they built christian churches, not tabernackles or muslim temples.They gave thanks to god for their triumphs and for deliverence in time of need. Paul Reverve didn't climb a totem pole or shrine to Budda when he waved his lantern, he was in a christian church.
The men that framed this country's constitution were all to aware of how a state established religion affected a country, and wanted to make sure that the one they were setting up would not suffer that fate. Hence the wording of this amendment to keep them separate. No where was their intent to bar religion, that is plain in their writings, for they knew that to bind and keep together a group of people that did not always agree on things,they drew on the bible as a guide to morality which evidently did work.
Almost all of the early leaders were church goers, Jefferson probably the one most apt to stay at home.
As a transplant to the land of G. Washington, I have a chance to learn more about the first and foremost leader of this country, as he was born and was raised just 15 miles from me. Every week there seems to be articles of interest in the local paper about him. This past weekend when his birthday was celebrated here they printed some excerts of some of his speeches. Here are a few
On war and peace 1st annual message 1790
"to be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace"
On Morality
"There is no truth more thoroughly established, then that there exists in the economy
and course of nature, an indissoluble union between virtue and happiness, between duty and advantage, between the genuine maxims of an honest and magnamimous policy and the solid rewards of public policy and felicity: Since we ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the external rules of order and right, which heaven itself has ordained:And since the preservation of the sacred fire of liberty, and the destiny of the republican model of government are justly considered as deeply, perhaps as finely staked,on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people"
First Inaugural address 1789
He is saying that a country that loses its morals will soon crumble.
And Paula, I know you can understand these words perhaps better than I . And, don't bring the slavery issue into it, that is a whole different subject. I know you are well read, and certainly opinionated, but maybe you ought to read a little more about this country's early history from more than the northern point of view.
RET



maybe i'm dumb........    Posted 02-25-2004 at 17:48:17       [Reply]  [Send Email]
....but why don't we put it up to the people of the U.S.A. to decide to ban gay marriages or not?
why not a vote to decide? i would be more than happy to take off work to vote!
the will of the people! i think gay marriages would be shot down like a rabid dog!
why should 2 or 3 openminded states rule the other 47 or 48 states?
i for one would vote against gay marriages,but i don't think the issue should determine a election.
we,as citizens know what we want, so lets vote on it!i always learned growing up....majority rules!
wait..............thats to simple.
hehehehehehehe.
okay,i am ready for the slams.......PP


McBurr    Posted 02-25-2004 at 19:49:34       [Reply]  [No Email]
PP I don't think it even amounts to 2-3 openminded states.

I will always believe it boils down to the elected or even the appointed officials that get the biggest kickback or under table payments.

After all Halliburton and Enron CEOs got a purdy good deal with the Scalia 5 deal did'nt they??

Come to find out, the same "open minded, non-biased" judge that agreed to hear and led the panel on the Bush/Gore election theft was then and still is a hunting and loafing buddy of Uncle Dick.

Unbiased opinions???? I don't think so. Monetary opinions????.........I would imagine.


ret    Posted 02-25-2004 at 18:25:20       [Reply]  [No Email]
majority does not rule in a republic in the way you are saying. That would be a democracy, which we are not. There is an old saying. "must be more to a democracy than two wolfs and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner" That is majority rule, and I am sure you wouldn't want that.
REt


deadcarp-congatulations    Posted 02-26-2004 at 08:09:24       [Reply]  [No Email]
Majority rule? "must be more to it than two wolfs and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner"

That one made the bulletin board at the local cafe this morning :)


i get your point,but    Posted 02-25-2004 at 18:58:37       [Reply]  [Send Email]
this is an issue that affects all U.S citizens.
LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE!
whatever the bottom line is......well, thats the bottom line.
i have stayed out of this whole debate so far,but just as you point out about the two wolves.........that can be turned around......two sheep.......two states,as opposed to 48.
i am not trying to argue with you ret, but i don't feel like i should have to live the way CA.,MA.,or NY., wants me to live.lets put it to a nationwide vote, and i will accept the verdict.
,as i think the rest of the nation would.
i live in a rural area because i don't want to be controled by town ordinances,but if the voters in the county want to vote in county wide zoning i guess i will vote against it.if it passes i will have to live with it.
i guess what i am saying is i don't want to have to abide by rules implemented into law because some politicaly correct state or organisation has got the limelight and everyone jumps on the band wagon supporting them.
right is right and wrong is wrong.......and i feel that all the common sense folks out there know the right from the wrong.they just need to be firm enough to not let the oodballs push them into the wrong corner.........PP


Clipper    Posted 02-25-2004 at 19:08:23       [Reply]  [No Email]
I agree with you still on the nationwide vote.....we have a Presidential Election coming up in November....why not have that question put on the ballot as well as the candidates? Oh I know why not....it makes too much sense and it would deprive a lot of lawyers from making a lot of money....durn it all.


Cindi    Posted 02-26-2004 at 03:00:03       [Reply]  [No Email]
It sure would be interesting though to see how many like-minded people there are out there. It's a shame it won't ever happen.


Les    Posted 02-25-2004 at 18:30:14       [Reply]  [No Email]
One thing is for bloody well sure in this country these days and that is that the MINORITY rules.


deadcarp    Posted 02-26-2004 at 04:53:25       [Reply]  [No Email]
nope, even lincoln knew majority don't rule so that falacy was long gone then. ideas need exposure - then attention then discussion then action in order to achieve resolution. and the chicken that squaks loudest gets fed first. still true.


Ron,ar    Posted 02-25-2004 at 19:36:13       [Reply]  [No Email]
You got that right "Brudder" Les. Heck, we can't even get rid of that anchor dragging us down, the "electoral college". How can we set up free elections in Iraq when we have to have Electorates here 200+ years after our own Revolution supposedly set us free. I'm disgusted with the whole thing!!!!All we ever do is hash out the same old stuff here. I hope they find little green men on Mars so we can find a new subject.:^)


i know.....    Posted 02-25-2004 at 19:05:04       [Reply]  [Send Email]
.......and i don't get it.
i try to stay away from the political posts,but this bothers me.in my home the word berkley brings up the subject.........nightmares!
i could go on,but i guess i need to eat supper and go to bed.
see ya in the morning........PP


Clipper    Posted 02-25-2004 at 18:34:56       [Reply]  [No Email]
And the special interest groups too...durn it.


That is....    Posted 02-25-2004 at 18:18:16       [Reply]  [No Email]
the same thing I suggested here. A nationwide referendum! The Democrats/liberals would fight that tooth and nail I'm betting.

Clipper


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