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Country Discussion Topics
To add your comments to this topic, click on one of the 'Reply' links below.

The Pledge of Allegiance
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DD    Posted 04-21-2004 at 04:32:53       [Reply]  [No Email]
Subject: THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
>
>
>
>
>
> In light of the recent appeals court ruling in
> California, with respect to the Pledge of
> allegiance, the following recollection from Senator
> John McCain is very appropriate:.
>
> "The Pledge of Allegiance" -
>
>
> by Senator John McCain
>
>
>
> As you may know, I spent five and one half years as
> a prisoner of war during the Vietnam War. In the
> early years of our imprisonment, the NVA kept us in
> solitary confinement or two or three to a cell. In
> 1971 the NVA moved us from these conditions of
> isolation into large rooms with as many as 30 to 40
> men to a room.
>
> This was,as you can imagine, a wonderful change and
> was a direct result of the efforts of millions of
> Americans on
> behalf of a few hundred POWs 10,000 miles from home.
>
>
> One of the men who moved into my room was a young
> man named Mike Christian.
> Mike came from a small town near Selma, Alabama. He
> didn't wear a pair of shoes until he was 13 years
> old.
> At 17, he enlisted in the US Navy. He later earned a
> commission by going to Officer Training School Then
> he became a Naval Flight Officer and was shot down
> and captured in 1967. Mike had a keen and deep
> appreciation of the opportunities this country and
> our military provide for people who want to work and
> want to succeed.
>
> As part of the change in treatment, the Vietnamese
> allowed some prisoners to receive packages from
> home. In some of these packages were handkerchiefs,
> scarves and other items of clothing.
>
> Mike got himself a bamboo needle. Over a period of a
> couple of months, he created an American flag and
> sewed on the inside of his shirt.
>
> Every afternoon, before we had a bowl of soup, we
> would hang Mike's shirt on the wall of the cell and
> say the Pledge of Allegiance.
>
> I know the Pledge of Allegiance may not seem the
> most important part of our day now, but I can assure
> you that in that stark cell it was indeed the most
> important and meaningful event.
>
> One day the Vietnamese searched our cell, as they
> did periodically,and discovered Mike's shirt with
> the flag sewn inside, and removed it.
>
> That evening they returned, opened the door of the
> cell, and for the benefit of all of us, beat Mike
> Christian severely for the next couple of hours.
> Then, they opened the door of the cell and threw him
> in. We cleaned him up as well as we could.
>
> The cell in which we lived had a concrete slab in
> the middle on which we slept. Four naked light bulbs
> hung in each corner of the room.
>
> As I said, we tried to clean up Mike as well as we
> could. After the excitement died down, I looked in
> the corner of the room, and sitting there beneath
> that dim light bulb with a piece of red cloth,
> another shirt and his bamboo needle, was my friend,
> Mike Christian. He was sitting there with his eyes
> almost shut from the beating he had received, making
> another American flag. He was not making the flag
> because it made Mike Christian feel better. He was
> making that flag because he knew how important it
> was to us to be able to Pledge our allegiance to our
> flag and country.
>
> So the next time you say the Pledge of
> Allegiance,you must never forget the sacrifice and
> courage that thousands of Americans have made to
> build our nation and promote freedom around the
> world.
>
> You must remember our duty, our honor, and our
> country
>
> "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United
> States of America and to the republic for which it
> stands, one nation
> under God, indivisible,with liberty and justice for
> all."
>
>
> PASS THIS ON... and on... and on! You can even
> send it back to me, I don't mind, because its worth
> reading again


screaminghollow    Posted 04-21-2004 at 06:46:15       [Reply]  [No Email]
The pledge of allegiance is fine. We have a very respected foreign family in this town. They are here at the request of a local company and the husband is a research doctor and the wife a teacher. Their kids go to the public schools. They are Canadian. Having their kids pledge allegiance to the flag of the US seems a little dictatorial. Also, there is a huge number of US citizens who are neither Jewish or Christian. (In fact US Moslems outnumber US Jews. There are also, Shintu, Hindu, Buddist and many others, some of the families have been US citizens for over a century and have lost their sons in our wars.) How in the world, is this one nation, indivisible with liberty and justice for all, when we force their children to say "under God."
For those of us of a Christian or Jewish backround, it is no big deal. For those millions of US CITIZENS of other religions, I can see that it is an insult to have their children recite something every day in school acknowledging a government priority of someone else's religion. How does that not creat a division and how does that promote liberty and justice for all?
Those of you who immediately rant about how this nation started as a Christian land, forget that before the "Christians" there were American Native religions, That when the Christians came, they fought battles against each other in the name of their particular sects. The Virginian invaded Southern Maryland to fight the puritans. Lord Calvert's Maryland governor (Catholic) fought a three day battle against the Puritans at New Providence (Near present day Annapolis), and when he lost was hung as a Papist heathen. Jews and women weren't allowed to own property or vote. Yeah, this country started out just great. As the Bunkers sang "Those were the days!"
The Pleadge of Allegiance should be a nearly sacred thing for US Citizens, but a problem was inserted in the 1950's which is an affront to a great number of our own citizens. Just pointing that out.


DD    Posted 04-21-2004 at 07:23:02       [Reply]  [No Email]
I didn't post this to start an argument of any kind but I would like to point out that this IS The United States of America. I realize some folks live here who come from different places and have different religions. However, having said that I also feel like if they came here for the opporunities they could not have in their own countries they should respect our country. I've never once forced anyone to recite the pledge, but I have said they do need to at least stand up and be quiet while we who do recite the pledge do so. To me that is the worst kind of disrespect. I don't begrudge anyone coming here for an education, PROVIDED they aren't here to blow us up when theyre through getting said education. I know we have many opportunities that they wouldn't have in their own country. I don't begrudge anybody the right to an education. I do however feel that while they are here they should show the proper respect to this country. JMHO : )


Burrhead    Posted 04-21-2004 at 12:18:04       [Reply]  [No Email]
American born folks that disgrace our pledge by staying seated and the men not removing their hats and putting their hand over the heart kinda chaps my hide.

The folks that come to America and are offended by me saying *under God* don't mind offending me with all that dang garlic stinking, and them goofy looking polka dot foreheads when I check in a Ramada or Holiday Inn tho.

They claim them polka dots on the wimmins heads is so that when she marries the new hubbie can scratch it off on the wedding nite to see if he won a 7-11 or a used tire store.


DD    Posted 04-21-2004 at 15:43:28       [Reply]  [No Email]
Thats funny right there, I don't care who ya are! : )


Actually.....    Posted 04-21-2004 at 12:56:07       [Reply]  [No Email]
I always thought it was an unfinished bullseye.......:^)

Clipper: who's now thinkin scratch n' sniff....LOL!!


ROFLMAO!!!!    Posted 04-21-2004 at 12:28:43       [Reply]  [No Email]
I wasn't gonna say a thing on this here post but Burr ya got me to blow cawfee all over the durn Monitor again!!!!


Clipper: :^)


Burrhead    Posted 04-21-2004 at 13:26:13       [Reply]  [No Email]
dadgumit and I was being serious too. ;^)


fredo.    Posted 04-21-2004 at 11:34:16       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I'VE HEARD ON THIS SITE AND MANY OTher sITES. [don't bring your city ways to the country]. that applies to the pledge in my opinion too.
fredo.


screaminghollow    Posted 04-21-2004 at 13:33:56       [Reply]  [No Email]
...and country folk are supposed to take pride in being considerate of others... guess some folks have yet to learn that! Fredo, you from the city?


to DD    Posted 04-21-2004 at 11:03:43       [Reply]  [No Email]
Interesting point that you don't mind folks coming and living here and refer to "their" countries. Oddly, for the bulk of the folks I was referring too, these UNITED States are their country and have been for over a hundred years, (maybe even longer than many of your ancestors)
The ethno centric view that this is "my" country and "you" folks should comply with "my" ways is false. For the US citizens, regardless of religion, it is "our" country, not just "yours" or "mine" It is so anti-American to impose one persons religion on another, whether in everyday living or in the Pledge of Allegiance. If the Pledge of Allegiance is to really mean something to all U.S.Citizens, then it must be for ALL citizens, not just the ones of Judeo-Christian beliefs. Doesn't the Bill of Rights mandate that there will be no government establishment of religion? How in the world then can you say you are complying with the spirit of those who established this country by demanding the sanctioning of your religion by including the name of your supreme being in a government pledge? Isn't this expressly against the very nature of the Nation (most of) our fore fathers set up in the 1780's?


~Lenore    Posted 04-21-2004 at 11:27:36       [Reply]  [No Email]
GOD is not a "religion".


B.E.    Posted 04-22-2004 at 21:01:30       [Reply]  [No Email]
Your correct Lenore..absolutely. :)


Paula    Posted 04-21-2004 at 12:34:21       [Reply]  [Send Email]
LOL! So you don't mind if I say "one nation under Kali"
then.

Paula


screaminghollow    Posted 04-21-2004 at 13:31:29       [Reply]  [No Email]
Right on!


Paula    Posted 04-21-2004 at 09:16:38       [Reply]  [Send Email]
1. There are true blue, straight-up flag waving, dyin-for-your-country, born-here Americans who object to "under god" being in the pledge. And how about those first Americans; maybe we should say "one nation under the great spirit"?

2. "Under-god" was inserted into the pledge in the 50s.

3. What kind of patriot test is this anyway? You think crooks and those with nefarious motives would explode or change color if they say it? Everyone that says the pledge means it? Those that don't say the pledge don't mean it?

4. I work on a military base and we stop our cars on the way out at 5pm when the flag is being lowered. It is a sign of respect that, IMO, any country is owed.

5. Personally I don't like swearing oaths. If I find myself having to say the pledge - for instance at my citizenship ceremony - I'll just hop over "under god".

JMO
Paula


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