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Question is this for Real??
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Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-08-2002 at 08:50:59       [Reply]  [No Email]
I got a question, out of all the Religions in the world which one is correct? They all seem to say theirs is correct. I never could understand that part. Some don't do Chrismas or call it something else and some do. Some won't use another persons blood to save a life some will. There are some who play with snakes and drink poison?? They realy do belive this too! I have seen it. What about the second coming for those people in California who all killed themselves listening to some wacko telling them lets all die and get on the space ship thats coming. Georgetown that's another one what a waste of lives. I guess there must be a lot of Lemmings out there just following the one in front in to the river to drown! I realy wonder about the thinking of some and you think we can change that?? The world is full of Crazy people and I think I will stay in the Country where there are less of them! Mark H.


Fred Tx    Posted 03-10-2002 at 15:17:33       [Reply]  [No Email]
My bible says test all things.


Dreamweaver    Posted 03-09-2002 at 21:04:58       [Reply]  [No Email]
This one is easy. Forget the "religion." Just remember, the requirements for Heaven and salvation are to Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and Thou Shalt Be Saved. Then, practice good basic clean living. If you screw up, acknowledge it and ask forgiveness. It's a pretty simple thing. Blind faith. But it's free for the taking and it's very easy. Man made religion. God made salvation. I'm sticking with God.


bob    Posted 03-10-2002 at 15:28:13       [Reply]  [No Email]
well said you two master brains you got my vote


Hogman--WELL SAID D W    Posted 03-10-2002 at 04:30:46       [Reply]  [No Email]
Ole "Shakyspear" wrote most of the King James version as interpreted by the "assigned" scholars. Even to putting His name and age in it.
At one time I had the location of them but thats now lost along with most of My brain.
Even My trifocles are startin ta fail as are tha hearin aids.

Had a friend who was an agnostic, tought history of religon,a walkin encylopedian on tha subject,another friend was President of a Bible Collage,an Atheist I'm sure tho He'd never say. I grew up in tha Southern hardshell Baptist church,Hells fire'n brimstone. I can remember as a little kid imaginun sulpher smoke comin right up thru that cracks in tha church house floor.

Somewhere out of all this I have formed My own "personal church". You believe what You wish and I'll respect it,start tryin ta rearrange My head and I'll durn sure rearrange Your! Now debating religion is OK long as it's done in a friendly,civil manner such as is being conducted here on tha forum.
Whats right and whats wrong is hard ta say, but horrible crimes have been commited through out the ages in tha name of Religion.And lastly,t'aint tha sect ya belong to, like DW says,it's up to You as a person.

Just My senile .001cts worth


Salmoneye...Shakespeare Wrote The Bible?    Posted 03-10-2002 at 09:43:10       [Reply]  [Send Email]
According to some numerologists, Shakespeare wrote The King James Version of the Bible at the age of 46. Their "evidence": Shake is the 46th word of the 46th Psalm, Spear is the 46th word from the end in the 46th Psalm

Uh huh...

Guess all those multi-thousand year old Dead-Sea Scrolls are fakes then...

LOL


Hogman--Well now    Posted 03-11-2002 at 10:15:06       [Reply]  [No Email]
Figured that'ud get a rise outta somebody. Since literal translation from any language at times makes for strange writing or speech I'd bet the farm Those who translated the letters,scrolls etc used some imagination in the process. Think You will agree that Paul did not use "Thees,Thines and Thous" in His writings. And, if realy pinned down on it I would not bet tha farm that old Shaky did or didnot at least help out in writing and I repeat writing the King James version. Even the word version would tend to indicate same.
Ever set around and listen to a bunch of phd' theology critters argue the meaning of words.
We know or should anyway that there is truth to the bible, history bears this out.But much may be gained or lost in the interpretation.

Now back to ole Shakey ,since He was a top dog in literary deeds of the day would it not be logical to call on His expertise? And, considering same expertise would it not be possiable for Him to have snuck those items in?

To take it one step further I'd bet tha farm on the interpretations used for the King James version being acceptable to said king in the final draft.
Now all that said, I expect You have a great deal more Knowledge on the subject than I do and I certainly respect Your views.
My dear sainted ole mother wound up a Missionary Baptist in later years,You should have heard some of the argumentd We enjoyed. WOW!!!
Ask Maw hog about missionarys amongest the Indians. My Mother in law could speak at length on the humilation They suffered at the hands of missionarys. Yeh,I know this's got nuthin ta do with shaky.


Salmoneye    Posted 03-11-2002 at 13:08:45       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Hmmm...

Dunno what to say other than I have never heard anyone other than numerologists say that Shakespeare had anything to do with the bible whatsoever. Even hardcore Shakespeare fans and schollars do not go there.

The fact that Shakespeare was alive (1564-1616) at the time of the 1611 translations of the Hebrew and Greek texts that we now know as the King James Version I think is purely coincidence. There are also a LOT of people that can argue that William Shakespeare the landowner and merchant had nothing to do with writing the plays and sonnets attributed to him. One person that gets credit alot is Christopher Marlowe. The current favorite for the 'true' author though is Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford. Oxfords' personal Geneva Bible is still intact and has a couple hundred notations and underlinings that correspond earily to the hundreds of references from the Bible in Shakepeares works.

This site has the arguement that is put forth for de Vere actually being 'Shakespeare':

http://www.everreader.com/bible4.htm

And the link below is the 'original' translation of 1611 of the King James Version of the Bible.
Interestingly, the 'original' had the Apocrypha included and they are here at this link. They were later 'deleted' and the Bible went from its' original 80 books down to the present 66 books. This happened in 1885 and was done by the Archbishop Of Canterbury. Always makes me wonder why 'The Word Of God' was OK for so many years, but suddenly has no worth in the deleted books.

Sorta like what some people are trying to do to the US Constitution...


Hogman    Posted 03-12-2002 at 13:46:49       [Reply]  [No Email]
Very interesting,some of it rings a bell and some is new to Me. I very much appreciate Your offering this information.
Guess We will never know the truth about ole shaky,at best a lot of conjecture,but it all makes for brain food if We'll allow it.

I too have wondered about deletions but recall some 50 years ago some of tha "phd'" critters were saying this and that should not have been included.
Too, do You recall mabe an arguement about the "lost" Dead sea scrolls? That when found some said parts of Them should never be published? Too controversial.
Again, thanks for the post


Dave 2N    Posted 03-09-2002 at 10:56:13       [Reply]  [Send Email]
What do you like better; Levis or Wranglers, Fords or Chevys, Coke or Pepsi?
Any religion that is so pompous as to think that THEY and THEIRS is the only right one is simply contributing to this world's turmoil. Just pick the one you want, let the other guys and girls pick the one(s) they want and then mind your own business and let them mind theirs. What's the problem with "fundamentalism" in any form? Just grab a dictionary and check the meaning of this word.


Terry Olendorff    Posted 03-09-2002 at 07:03:27       [Reply]  [No Email]
Christ centered. Period.


Bob /Ont.    Posted 03-08-2002 at 21:11:47       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Hi Mark. I'd like to talk to you about the lemming thing,
but it's late so maybe later.
By now Bob.


Where there is no law there is no sin!!    Posted 03-08-2002 at 16:27:08       [Reply]  [No Email]
The first sins The Creator, warned man [Gen.2:17] disobey Me and you shall surely
die [He had commanded them not to eat of the tree] or you shall surely die. But Satan
said [Gen.3:1-4] You shall not surely die, and this was the first recorded lie in history,
it was told by Satan not by man, and he twisted God's word,and deceived [Gen.3:5] and what did Eve do? [Gen.3:6] she ate and her husband ate of what God said not to eat,and the 1st sin on human kind against God happened. By doing what they had done they had placed another god in place of the true God-they broke the 1st. Commandment,Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Exodus 20:3,they also broke
the 5th commandment by dishonoring their only parent, and he broke the 10th Commandment, lust vanity, egotism,and pride entered into their heart, and the 8th commandment by stealing what was not theirs, 4 of the 10 commandments were broken in the original sin, and there children, Cain and Abel, Cain tilled the ground, and Abel attended the flocks, But by jealousy Cain murdered Abel, Murder was a sin from the very begining,and Where is thy brother? Cain lied to God, therefore he broke another commandment, Cain broke the 6th and the 9th commandment.And what about Joshua 24:2 Before Abraham's time worshipping idols a transgressions of God's law. The penalty of sin reigned from Adam to Moses. [Romans 5:14] and in Genesis 35:2,4, Idolatry was committed in the generations after Abraham,Leviticus 18:1,27 they were taking the name of God in vain a sin before Moses' time. Exodus 20;8-11In Gen. 39:1-2,7 what of Potiphar's with her advances towards Joseph, Joseph refused, why? adultery!*** Where there is no law, sin is not imputed, Joseph knew God's law and he knew that sin would be imputed if he broked that law!, and in Exodus 20:15 How did Jacob, who lived before the10 Commandments were repeated at Sinai, know it was a sin to steal? {Gen.30:33}Jacob knew and understood the meaning of the word steal, and it was sin, in those days as these days, and what about Abraham's wife, when God prevented King Abimelech from marrying Abraham's wife,[Gen.20:3,4] if Abimelech would have taken her to himself it would have been adultery, it would have been a sin,transgression of the law.And did Abraham,who lived between the time of Adam and Moses, have thorough knolwsedge of God's Commandments? Gen.26:5, and God's statues" and God's laws? How did Abraham learn all these things? God's Voice!
Which We hear loud and clear through His Inspired Word written for us, to have
for a witness and a warning, and thus we hear His voice call, The Holy Ghost leading us
to a place God wants us to be, which is in Him, and through Our High Priest which is our
Elder Brother Jesus Christ whom has redeemed us from the pentally of death through our repentace and His shed blood which we are made white as snow in the presents of
Our Holy Father our Creator.


Uniballer    Posted 03-08-2002 at 12:56:49       [Reply]  [No Email]
Who knows? Most True Believers seem to claim that theirs is the One True Religion. They can't all be right, can they? The non-believers generally want rational, verifiable proofs; to date anything presented as proof is apparently not considered rational and verifiable by the non-believers.

Unfortunately, the waters are muddied even more by the people who claim they have the answers, but take advantage of the believers.


Ole Cuss    Posted 03-08-2002 at 12:40:37       [Reply]  [No Email]

Mark Twain had organized religion pretty well figured out. His book, "Letters from the Earth", is the best take on the subject that I have ever read, a very unappreciated gem of cynicism and satire.


Uniballer    Posted 03-08-2002 at 13:02:41       [Reply]  [No Email]
Here's a link I found...


Ole Cuss    Posted 03-09-2002 at 14:32:20       [Reply]  [No Email]

Yes, that's it. It's a book-length work, though, and something you might prefer to keep on the nightstand and read over time instead of bugging the old eyes out, staring at the on-line version endlessly scrolling by. I bought my copy through The Common Reader catalog.


IHank    Posted 03-08-2002 at 11:34:58       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Mark- A short answer to your question is- None of 'em! They're all full of themselves!

At the same time, they all got some real good thinking involved in 'em. On one extreme we got the Catholics that would like everybody to think they can't know God, or do much of anything religous, without paying off a religous beauracy. e.g., A very close divorced relative is still doing pay offs to the church so he can be married to his Catholic 2nd wife. If he misses a payment will he end up living in sin and will their kids be deemed bastards? On the other extreme we got the Muslims that stress that nobody comes between a True Believer and God. Then they put up Imams that act mostly as political rabble rousers and do little in the way of social good... Like I say, they're all full of themselves.

Religous intolerance is a two sided coin. On one side is a philosophy that each person should know God and worship in his/her own way. On the other side of the coin is a widely practiced philosophy of imposing "the only true religon" on others. Here in the US we're surrounded by one of the true religons, that preaches and practices cannabalism. But, they give it the socially acceptable name of "Holy Communion".

Mark, seek a little perspective on it all. One good place to start is "The Source", a book by Jim Mitchner. Give special attention to the parts about the crusades and the "Holy Wars" and religous conversions. It does a pretty good job of showing the whole bunch up for what they really are- a bunch of power trippers that are full of themselves.

Continue on with a look into world history. How many wars have been fought because of religous fanatacism and how many were in pursuit of only land and property?

If you're comfortable and happy with your faith, then that's just wonderful. Enjoy it, appreciate it, and practice it faithfully. But, don't be trying to impose it on somebody else! IHank


kraig WY    Posted 03-08-2002 at 13:38:07       [Reply]  [No Email]
You are correct. If you keep people ignorent then you can demand payment for the church's blessing. However the Bible was written for the "unlearned". Don't trust what people, church or otherwise tell you. Read the Bible for youself. If you take your time in studding can find the answers. Grace is a gift, stay away from any who demand payment.


Salmoneye    Posted 03-08-2002 at 14:03:40       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Studied for years...Many religions...multiple sects of Christianity and Judaism...There is no God...There is only here and now...Good and Evil...choose your path here...be the best you can be...There are so many interpretations of the Bible, whose do you read...I have no less than 5 different interpretations on my shelves...If Christianity supercedes The Law And The Prophets (first 5 books of the Old Testament correspond to these in the Torrah), then why include the Old Testament at all in the Christian Bible?...Why ignore the Apocrypha?...

An eye for an eye...or...Turn the other cheek...very difficult to do both at the same time...


kraig WY    Posted 03-08-2002 at 14:18:19       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Why read history. The law was to show we are all sinners, borne in to sin and are incapable of anything else. Christ fulfilled the law. He covered your sins with Grace. He replaced the 10 Commandment with two Math 22:36-40. Christ taught nothing but love. Yes you have the choice of good and evil, but if choose love and as in Christ's commandment how can you go wrong. I have never read where Christ taught you to hurt people for God or anyone else. He tought only love so how can you be wrong following his teachings.


Salmoneye    Posted 03-08-2002 at 17:52:38       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I Never said that Christ taught anything but love...but you know as well as I that all sects pick and choose between the Old and New Testaments to emphasize their 'teaching' for that day..."for it is written"...
Yeah...Well...there is a lot of stuff written...How bout the 'Gospels'...The 'Church' that first organized the Bible and picked and chose what you see as 'The Bible' of today is still alive and well and living in Rome...Below is just one of the 'unaccepted' Gospels that can be traced at least as far back as the accepted ones...

Please do not take me wrong in my rantings...I am one of the most devout and die-hard believers in something more than the world that we see with our eyes...Looking at my 4 year old Daughters' face is proof enough for me of something greater than all of us...

I just like to argue religion...

;-)


kraig WY    Posted 03-09-2002 at 07:46:45       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I too, enjoy discussing (arguing) religion. I've even been known to learn something.


kraig WY again    Posted 03-08-2002 at 08:59:26       [Reply]  [No Email]
I think there is a differance between a god that want you to die for him and a God who sent his Son to die for you. Christ only gave two commandments. The second is to love neighbor as you self. Love is what seperates Christianity from the other religions.


Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-08-2002 at 09:08:31       [Reply]  [No Email]
I can understand and deal with that part it is all the other parts I have a hard time understanding. Mark H


Becky    Posted 03-08-2002 at 09:35:19       [Reply]  [Send Email]
The other "parts" are only out there to confuse you and give you doughts about the one true God. If you read and believe the Bible, than you should have no worries or concerns about the rest. Do your best in this life and you will be rewarded in the next.


Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-08-2002 at 09:41:46       [Reply]  [No Email]
I will say there have been things I have seen in my lifetime that can test you to the limints. I just keep plugging along hoping for a better Day! Mark H.


kraig WY    Posted 03-08-2002 at 09:55:16       [Reply]  [No Email]
Again, I don't believe in "content". Don't wait for it, go for it. Ever notice that warm fuzzy feeling you get from helping some one. Changed a tire for a little old lady in the rain? Or give someone a ride. That warm fuzzy feeling is nothing more then love. The good feeling you've been looking for is there. I know, I've seen it in your past post on the tractor fourms.


Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-08-2002 at 09:59:36       [Reply]  [No Email]
I quess life is allways testing you. That's part of it. Mark H.


kraig WY    Posted 03-08-2002 at 09:15:25       [Reply]  [No Email]
What part. Its all about love and Grace. Anyone tells you the Bible says otherwise is wrong.


Burrhead    Posted 03-08-2002 at 19:38:58       [Reply]  [No Email]
That's exactly right.



Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-08-2002 at 08:55:11       [Reply]  [No Email]
Don't get me wrong I belive in a higher power, I just haven't put a name on it yet. The Ten Comandments sure make sence to me. Mark H.


Sammie    Posted 03-08-2002 at 22:34:57       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I feel a long post coming on!!

I used to be one of those people who didn't believe something unless there was "evidence" to prove it. There is not real "proof" of God. Not any more. After almost dying when I was 19 and the strange things I experienced then but didn't understand at the time, I began to look for answers. Didn't find any.

In 1994, my best friend of 10 years was involved in a semi- truck/trailor accident. I loved him dearly and just knew his soul was too big to have just gone "poof". The accident was really ugly and although he was crushed, he lived for 2 hours. While I sat on the back porch thinking about him and the accident, I remembered what I had experienced when I was 19 and it all began to make sense.

Jesus said he would write the commandments on our hearts. What was missing in the old testiment was the spirit of the commandments. People going through the motions out of fear or habbit? Faith in God and love of Jesus is inside of you, it's not something put there by the church. Faith is belief in the unseen and is a gift.

I won't go into details as to what happened when I almost died. Even Christians have looked at me like I was nuts but I can tell you that God is perfect. Somewhere in the old testement when the children of Isreal were wondering in he desert, two men entered the Holy of Holys and were immediately disintigrated because they were unclean. Jesus is like the buffer between us and God. Jesus died in our place to make up for our being less than perfect. When we die, we take the love with us. "Store up your treasures in heaven" Because Love is perfect and all of the things that come from having a loving, gentle heart like caring, being helpful to others, etc. The petty arguements, grudges, prejudice, greed, all of that is like the chafe in the wind or is blown away like ashes becaus it is less than perfect and you began to realize that those things mean NOTHING!! In the end, the only thing that counts is the love. It's hard to have experienced being "perfect" and then having God send me back to this imperfect world and be imperfect myself again. I hated myself and this world for a long time because I didn't understand. I didn't want to come back. To be so close that I could almost touch the face of God, to be so tranquil and content and yet so excited about what was ahead and to know that no matter what happened on this earth, it would be ok because I was no longer a part of it - it was out of my control and that there is so much more once we leave this body that this world and everything in it from the beginning to the end could fit on the head of a pin compared to what there really is out there and I never even knew it - it's been there all along.

I didn't cry for my boyfriend after I understood because God told me he had asked to be forgiven. I'd never prayed in the spirit before. I'm not afraid to be dead anymore although getting there is a different story!!!! lol

I read my Bible from cover to cover. There is a common thread that runs through the entire Bible, cover to cover. If what the church is teaching doesn't fit with what God has shown me, I don't quit going to church but I also recognize that God feeds you a bite at a time so there is alot I don't know. Life is a growing process and everyone is somewhere on their path home. I don't know that other religions are wrong. I'm baptized Nazarene but my relationship is with the Lord. Who am I to say that a Baptist is wrong if they are living by what has been layed on their hearts - not by the church but by the Lord?


kraig WY    Posted 03-09-2002 at 06:13:13       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Sammie, I agree with you in that the church's are becoming a stumbling block. I go to church for the fellowship but I will only use the Bible for guidence. Revelation shows that where Christ chastises the churches. Its all about Grace, love and cherity.


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