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Raising Kids
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Confused, Stupid or just Dumb    Posted 03-11-2002 at 18:07:06       [Reply]  [No Email]
O.K. all, I want to know your opinion. Here's the deal.
Really bad divorce in 79. One boy about six.Mama hates daddy and daddy hates mamma, even today. Maybe I forget, maybe just would not like. Busted my butt to keep him from being a stranger to his daddy. Spent mega bucks for private high school(daddy paid). Sent him to college(several-flunked out of all). Learned to drive a truck commercially-gave that up. Back in school part time and wants daddy to pay, which I have up until now. Now 30 years old and decided to get married. Nice girl and would be great if he had a job. He presently delivers pizzas for domino. No reflection on domino or delivery people.I like the pizza and the delivery folks are friendly.
O.K., we had a big split Christmas and I finally said tonight that I will attend the wedding. (Him mama is going to see it happen). AM I A WUSSY OR WHAT?????????????????

Thanks for all your replies to my post.    Posted 03-12-2002 at 16:50:13       [Reply]  [No Email]
First, it restores my faith in this old world that there are still people out there with good and sound reasoning. All the replies were easy on me except rob. Get this. He has a point. I re-read his reply several times and I can't find anything that I can really say is incorrect. He recognizes the mistakes. All I can say is that rob doesn't give much guidance out of the mess. That's o.k. because I didn't ask for anything except opinions. Thanks to all.
Finally, I'm going to this darn wedding dressed in a monkey suit and fresh washed. I'm gonna even put on some fu-fu juice and smell like something that'll run the dogs off. Thanks again all.

Dan G/Soganofla    Posted 03-12-2002 at 19:16:52       [Reply]  [No Email]
I haven't read the replies, yet, but I can tell you've made the right decision. Just be yourself, enjoy the day, and don't lower yourself to being ungracious. Wish them well, then sit back and see what happens.

I told my kids that I wouldn't let them starve, or freeze to death, but I'll sure let'em be cold and hongrey. They took it to heart, and don't ask for anything unless they really need it.

Ludwig    Posted 03-13-2002 at 13:56:17       [Reply]  [No Email]
You know Dan, I learned the most about that
at work. I don't complain about anything, I
make do with an old computer, bad monitor,
squeeky chair, etc, but when I do complain the
Boss listens up!

Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-12-2002 at 08:59:46       [Reply]  [No Email]
People make mistakes and sometime a marrige won't work no matter what you do. People change, so then the best thing is to split the sheets up. Find another one and go on with life. As far as your kid you won't be around for ever he better figure it out soon. By cutting him off now at least if he dose have a change of heart in his way of living you can pat him on the back and say good job! It is his choice not yours and his bed he made to sleep in. Mark H.

Becky    Posted 03-12-2002 at 08:03:02       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Dear Confused,
Don't listen to ROB! Obviously he's been sucking on too many lemons instead of making lemomade. Never give up hope, the rest of the reply's are proof of that. It's never too late to make a difference as long as you don't give up.
Rob, maybe you should SEE a therapist instead of trying to BE one.

ROB    Posted 03-12-2002 at 07:27:39       [Reply]  [Send Email]
This is a classic example of why peope are so ****ed up in the world today. The parents get divorced, and then compete to spoil the kid. An continue to support him/her into their 30's and beyond. I have seen it over and over, and not just with divorced parents. (although divorce is a big cause of all our problems). You should have stayed married, but that is water under the bridge. He should have been cut off the first time he flunked out of college, and you would all be a lot happier now. My opinion, its to late, he will never amount to anything, and he is continuing the cycle with his own kid. My bet, his kid won't amount to anything either. And it all started with you and your wife, being to selfish to stay together and raise your children like you should. Don't feel to bad, 50% of the population has your same problem.

Jerry S    Posted 03-13-2002 at 07:32:33       [Reply]  [No Email]
I want you to know that I see a lot of that happen where parents compete and spoil kids but you are wrong to group all the problems on divorce. Sometimes it keeps kids from being worse off. Many kids don't have that second parent around at all so they don't have an example of how to be a parent or what it is like to be married. There are lots of reasons why things get screwed up and divorce can be a cause or can be a result of other causes. People don't want to be responsible for anything they do anymore so we have laws that encourage that tendency. People don't have family ties and values like once was. Seems like many don't regard life to be important anymore. There are lots or causes.

kraig WY    Posted 03-12-2002 at 07:20:02       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I would provide love and guidense but force them to become self sufficient. I inherrited two step kids. Too late for the daughter, (one kid and one on the way when I got them). Came down hard on the boy school wise (ended up on the honor roll) but at 19 years old never had a job (he did just recently join the NG, its a start). Step daughter, now with no hubby but three kids (3 fathers). I didn't think anyone else should pay for my mistakes so I bought a house in town and moved her out of the welfare apartments. Only pays 250 rent to me. Yet I'm a mean SOB cause I make her pay rent. I'll help with whatever guidence and encouragement I can but no money unless she works for it. Am I a hard a$$ like she says, probably so.

bob    Posted 03-12-2002 at 07:50:16       [Reply]  [No Email]
Kraig you are nota hard a99 you are a good mentor I read earlier posts and had to thank god i haven,t had to deal with these problems . have seen them close around . when does the tough love come into affect too late i know is not good but how many deals do you have to withstand

Mark Bawden    Posted 03-12-2002 at 04:12:02       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I hope I can help, me being only 32. But let me tell you what my folks did. When I was 11 I had my first job and paid for every thing I did. Now 32 I not only have 1 but 4 jobs and paying for my wife and 2 kids. Mom and Dad had money but that was their money and my money was mine. So let son go get 1, 2, 3, or how many jobs it takes to pay the bills. You do what you gotta do to survive and you are not surviving. He's 30 years old let him go and be the adult he should have become 12 years ago!

F14    Posted 03-12-2002 at 03:59:23       [Reply]  [No Email]
You've gotten good advice here. I've been through it with one of my daughters, and the folks that advise Tough Love are absolutely correct.

Went through he!! with my girl. Drugs. Pregnancy. Running away. Stealing. And probably more that I don't know (and don't want to know) about. After things ran their course, she called from California (I was in Florida at the time) for "money to come home with". I sent her a non-refundable, "use it or lose it" bus ticket. She called back madder than anything because she couldn't cash that ticket. I said "Tough cookies. You want to come home, then come home. Otherwise, tear up the ticket, and best of luck to ya."

She came home. She weighed about 80 pounds soaking wet, and had all sorts of medical problems, some of which persist to this day, nearly 20 years later. That was the beginning. Now she's happily married, and is Wonder Mom. Has 7 kids right now, 6 of them troubled foster kids, 5 of whom she has adopted.

And every time I see her, she thanks me for what I did. At the time, her Mother and I were heartbroken. Now, we're so proud we could burst.

Personally, I'd have cut the kid off the first time he flunked out of college on my dime. It's time for you to quit letting your guilt fund someone else's stupidity.

Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-12-2002 at 06:21:38       [Reply]  [No Email]
F-14; I sure know where you are coming from!! Thats what happen to my 28 year old Daughter from my first marriage a long time ago! I learned about tough love then and it took years but it worked! She has a 7 year old son (which makes me a Grand Pa) and has finley pulled her self up out of the hole she dug for her self and is doing pretty good now. Mark H.

Old Warrior    Posted 03-11-2002 at 21:06:35       [Reply]  [No Email]
To achieve a better life for everynone, ya gotta get tough my friend, and i'll tell you why:

My buddy used to be an interviewer in an employment office, okay? He once said that he loves people who come strolling in and claim they love hard work. I asked him why and he said "Because it makes my job so much easier - now the I know i'm either looking at a dam liar or a dam fool, and all I have to decide is which!"

What's that got to do with your problem? Lots!
In the first place, anybody who claims to be an expert on raising kids would fit that category too! Secondly, if that kid's half as smart as you, he knows good and well where his next $20 is coming from! same place they all do! All you have to do is surprise him and break the cycle. :)

I can tell you, my own 30 yr old was acting stupid and sleeping til 2 so I told him to pack his stuff one fine day last Fall. so he blew his stack & left me with a busted door. Now he is all apologetic and wants a warm room again. Soon as he brings money for a new door - we'll talk about that $5000 of child-support he still owes his OWN daughter! He ain't hassling the old guy cuz he knows i'm serious! :)

Meanwhile he's learning there's no free lunch. and the good part is - this has been the most peaceful winter we grown-ups have had in years :)

Heartbroken in limbo    Posted 03-12-2002 at 06:02:44       [Reply]  [No Email]
Hello Old Warrior,
I'll try to make this as short as possible. Ten years ago my ex had a nervous breakdown. It resulted in some naughty behavior and a terrible example for her 20 yr.old son (my stepson). We struggled through it, and made big changes. We lasted another year & 1/2 before the
pattern renewed and she crashed & burned again.
This lead to a divorce. After 18 years of marraige.
In the meantime our son got married.
They had a beautiful baby right away. By the time his child was 2 he left them cold. No support, no contact. He had a new girl and a new motorcycle, and vanished.
For awhile I helped the mommy & grandchild. After some time she got stable and found a terrific man. She is happily married and I see them 2-3 times a year.
My stepson has nothing to do with his child. He pays support only when the law catches up to him. He has had no contact with me.

My last words with him are easy to recall:

"I don't know why you are unhappy, but your child is innocent and is in your life because of your decision. You as a man must support her, regardless of your feelings toward her mother."

His last words are as easily remebered:

"This is none of your business and I won't talk to you again about it."

He hasn't spoken to me since. Tough love requires a tough heart. If you lay down the gauntlet be prepared to stick it out. It could take years.

OW - probly right    Posted 03-12-2002 at 11:58:59       [Reply]  [No Email]
But does ANYBODY stand at their parents' gravesite without regrets?

Point is - there are mistakes we can only make if they get out of the way and let us. There's no painless way to avoid them & we'e all entitled to a few. I told my boy that i wouldn't be around to wipe his nose forever, HE's the parent now and it's time to start paying his own way. If that's the last advice he remembers - well i was never really profound anyway - close enough. :)

Sammie    Posted 03-12-2002 at 17:53:58       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Boy am I lucky!! I've always counted my blessings but after reading a few of the stories, I'm doubly greatful!! I'm a single parent and my 20 year old son moved out last fall. He started working teaching himself to engineer software for computers at age 15 and has been making money every since, now in high demand. We always got along ok, just didn't talk alot but now that he is on his own, he comes home to "visit Mom" and gives me more hugs and help than he ever did at home!! I told him before he moved out that there would always be room for him and his under my roof if he ever needs it and I mean that.

When he was four years old, he went to spend the night with my sister and her son. When he came back the next day I told him to put his things away and he said he didn't want to. I told him again and he said "I hate you!!" I knew where he got that one!! I simply looked at him and told him "I may not always LIKE what you do but I will ALWAYS LOVE you". I saw his face slowly turn red and he burst into tears and gave me a big hug and put his things way. How blessed I have been. He never said anything like that again.

Sammie    Posted 03-11-2002 at 20:33:06       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Not stupid, Mom's and Dad's never stop being parents if they love their kids. It's HOW you love them. Someone told when my son was born that the art of being a parent is knowing how much to let go when. Every kid is different and needs different things growing up, even at 20 years old but by 30 he should be standing on his own feet. There are alot of people out there that has less than perfect childhoods that turn out to be great adults and learned from their childhood experiences. Be your sons friend but not his crutch.

Dennis    Posted 03-11-2002 at 19:53:23       [Reply]  [Send Email]
You might want to get a professional opinion, but
if you decide to stop enabling him to be exactly as he is, PLEASE make sure you tell him you Love him and you will always be there to talk and listen to him. It would be best if you do not go back on any of the boundries you set for your future relationship with him, no matter how much it hurts you, because, you will only be hurting him more.
God Bless and I'll pray for all concerned.

Becky    Posted 03-11-2002 at 18:34:51       [Reply]  [Send Email]
No offense, but it sounds like you or his Daddy have been paying his way for the last 30 years. It's time for the boy to either sink or swim on his own.
I don't think you're a wussy or what if you go to his wedding. You go out of love for your son, not approval of what he is doing.
You've taught him all that you can and now it's time for him to show you what he's learned. Let go of the bike now Mom, and let him pedal it on his own.

Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-11-2002 at 18:24:58       [Reply]  [No Email]
It takes tough Love to solve that! Just cut him off completely till he gets good and hungry then he will have to get a real job and learn to take care of himself. Problem was you made it easy for him and why should he work you will pick up the tab. Just cut him off and let him learn that will be the schooling he ever had and it is FREE! Mark H.

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