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Problem with the farmer.
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DJ    Posted 03-13-2002 at 05:06:56       [Reply]  [No Email]
To those who read my messages regarding a recent purchase of 14 acres and a house.........

The farmer who had an ongoing deal with the last owner has changed his tune for my family. He farms the back nine acres and in exchange he provided hay or corn or whatever applied to the animals of the owners who is me now.

I phoned this farmer and introduced myself and to discuss the details of the arrangements........

There are a half dozen round bales in one of our horse pastures. I ask if he or someone could put one of the bales in the section of pasture we have ready and where we've placed two horses. We have two pastures........

He said those round bales are his ( even though they were harvested from our pasture ) and we have to pay him 25 dollars if we want one, which means, we can't let the horses into our own pasture to eat unless we pay him first.

I can't help it, I am teed off big time. I don't know what to say or do?

The previous owner said he was the big cheese around here because he's been here longer then anyone else. He has the money and the power over these roads and fields. I'm feeling like he thinks he owns our property. I was told that he is the one person I need on his good side..........bla bla bla.

I am upset and need some advice real bad. What am I to do? Oh I am not happy about this. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely DJ

TD    Posted 03-14-2002 at 12:34:51       [Reply]  [No Email]
There is a reason people like yourself belong in the city!!!!! GO BACK!!!!!

Scott(MO)    Posted 03-17-2002 at 20:18:34       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I like getting on the tractor forums up above. I thought I would slip down here to see what is going on in the country talk forum.But, I think it's a little to rough for this little country preacher, so if you'll excuse me , I'll go back to the tractors!


DJ from the burbs    Posted 03-14-2002 at 18:44:39       [Reply]  [No Email]
Why would you say this to me?

We still have our home in the "city" as you say.............

I can live here or there or where ever the F I want to.

Poor boy, the worse thing your momma ever did to you, was give you birth.

kraig WY    Posted 03-14-2002 at 06:56:59       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I don't know where your at. But if they're dicent large bales I would glady pay $25 a bale. Hay here is up to $110 per ton. I would still go with the "making friends" route. Good friends last longer then hay. Saying that some people just arn't friendly, but its worth a try.

Dave CO    Posted 03-14-2002 at 04:21:34       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I have the same instant reaction as most of the others, but I would follow through a little differently. I would see him face to face as others suggested, and say something like " I think we might have gotten started on the wrong foot....." and see if he changes his tune this time. Giving some one a second chance can never be looked down on, by anyone! A very wise old friend told me that learning to like the taste of crow is a slow process, but a very valable tool for use down the road. If his reaction is the same this time, I would string a new fence after moving his bales to his side of the new fence myself. A tractor with and attitude behind the wheel can be very destructive to a pasture, not to mention the liability others have mentioned. If the hay has been stored outside, and not covered, it is good as cow hay only and worth near nothing. Move it before the rains come, fence it and call it over with if his attitude remains the same. You can then tell any other farmer that might hay for you, that YOU were the one that ate crow for the main course and gave him a second chance to be a friend, and HE chose not to accept it.

Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-14-2002 at 06:41:12       [Reply]  [No Email]
Good answer! Mark H.

Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-13-2002 at 23:07:20       [Reply]  [No Email]
Something is missing for a correct answer to the problem. Did you offer to pay him to move the bale into the pasture for your horses to eat? The other part is, you want to put your horses in the pasture the hay is and not wanting them to eat it, yet you wanted hay put in with them where they are at now? Do these pastures have grass in them to eat? Was the hay there befor you moved there? If the hay was his you should give it to him. 150.00 worth of hay is not that much to lose in starting a good relation with this person, you do get the hay. Did he cut the hay while you lived there or did he cut it before? There is a lot of un answerd questions for someone to say one way or the other what would be right or wrong with this problem. You will have to live there give it some thought and you don't want to get walked over too. Like the post below you will have a hard time getting help later if you do the wrong thing. Try to give the whole story on this if you want a real answer to what to do. Mark H.

quitcha bi88hing    Posted 03-13-2002 at 22:19:11       [Reply]  [No Email]
jsut get along or get him off your property sounds like a typical city guy movin in and wantin it all,,, youll find a time when ya need the farmer to cut yur hay,,, or something, there are less and less farmers out there cuttin hay for others ,, but youll end up screwwin this up it sounds like,,,, fence it all off and go "grow" yur own hay,,,,, spend thousands for equiptmaent and break downs and really be in a pickle, once ya screw this farmer over it wont be easy to get another one to cut yur hay

realfarmer    Posted 03-13-2002 at 22:13:50       [Reply]  [No Email]
When were these bales harvested? Before or after your date of possession of your property? If it was before, they are his. I remember your previous posts regarding how satisfied you were with the terms: too good to be true. So what has changed? You talked about having conversed via telephone- how about in person? If the hay was harvested by him before your date of possession, why not let him know when you want his property removed, and then get your own equipment to run your own land, and be done with it? A few bales at $25 per isn't worth the hassle,no matter whose fault it is. Something is missing here.

CJC    Posted 03-13-2002 at 20:24:39       [Reply]  [No Email]
An interesting issue is brought up here by one of the poster's. I thought of it when I read your first post, but didn't want to be a nay sayer.

I work in the insurance field, because I can't be a farmer..that's another story....

The issue is, Before you let anyone use your land you must have a valid hold harmless agreement, also called indemnification clause. This simply states that the user will be the responsible party for any and all damages that are caused by his use of your He sells hay that has sat around a year and some one's horse bowls over. Believe me, deep pockets theory will have an attorney on both doorsteps. This will cover any and all liability generated from the use or misuse of your land. Most likely would even prevent you from being liable when the jerk comes in the middle of the night to steal and gets hung up on the barb wire and then sues......yes I have seen it happen, they usually win in court.

In this agreement you must clearly state that he is covered by his own insurance and he must provide a valid copy of the policy and you must keep same in your records and update yearly. A copy of same would be provided to your insurance agent, not really abig deal, they can even guide you through the process. You must make him show that he has valid work comp insurance or sign a waiver of same which in turn would put his liability insurance in the line ..and I would be sure that his agent receives a copy of this... for any hands he may have there who get hurt, let's hope no one does, but this is very important. I assume from your post that he may be a big enough chief to have some hired help. In many venues there are primary and secondary issues, his insurance may come into play first and yours second, a hold harmless will bar your policy from being "attacked".

I think that the advise most have given here is very sound and shows a good bunch of thinking. The soft approach always works best. For me anyway. You talk it over and he pushes you around, you show no sign of iritation or otherwise any emotion, then you quietly advise him by registered, certified mail ($2.95) that he has a certain amount of time to remove his property from your property. Be sure that you know what the legal limit would be in your jurisdiction, most any clerk at the courthouse will be very helpful, and I would keep in mind that details are none of their never know who knows who.

If you have not already, have an attorney review your sale deed for ownership, you never know, it may come out quite to your advantage...maybe this guy really has no hold on the egress rights. ( happened to us, the guy at the end of our lane thought he did, the county clerks office showed us that he was mistaken... I explained to him what they advised, he was P*ssed, never spoke of it again and we are now friends to the point we look out for each other).

Good luck. please let us all know what happens. Lot's of good folks here, though I have never met a single one of them, I read their stuff often.

Farmer-Gene-WI    Posted 03-13-2002 at 19:00:50       [Reply]  [No Email]
I was going to give you my view from a farmers perspective but after reading the other posts maybe I should keep my mouth shut. He didn't harvest the hay from your land it was the other owners land, for sure if it was from his 50% of the share he should have removed them before you arrived, but maybe he couldn't because of weather soft ground or whatever. I wouldn't put too much stake in what the previous owners had to say about him, they could be just trying to stir up trouble, go down and talk it out face to face. I wouldn't feed any of that hay to my horses anyway, if they've been sitting outside they will have mold and will ruin a good horse. Your going to have to put up with him as a neighbor so would be best to have him as a friend. If he's still a butt head tell him to stick his bales and any land agreement where the sun don't shine, take in some more horses to board, fence the nine acres and buy mold free hay with the money.

Greg D.    Posted 03-13-2002 at 18:13:08       [Reply]  [Send Email]

Since you say you now grow your own hay for the horses, it would be a REAL shame should those round bales get struck by lightnng or some other freak of nature "accident"
Go with the advice of legal opinions on easement. Good luck!!!!

SteveD(TX)    Posted 03-13-2002 at 13:56:25       [Reply]  [No Email]
I am a real estate consultant and a former broker. I am not a lawyer but recommend you get the advice of one familiar with real estate law. It is generally illegal (in most or all states) to sell land that has no access except to a contiguous owner. There is an easement called "easement by adverse possession" which entitles a property owner to continue to have access to his property over someone else's property if he has done so for a number of years, even without a recorded easement. But I do not think this is your situation. Sounds like you hold all the cards, and this guy is bullying you. BTW, if he is such a big wheel, why doesn't he own that 9 acres? Who gave him " power over these roads and fields"? My advice is to spend a little money for a lawyer, be nice, fair, and accomodating if you can, but stand your ground if he is a jerk. Good luck and keep us posted.

Alvin-Va    Posted 03-13-2002 at 12:30:32       [Reply]  [No Email]
DJ,I have some thoughts on this,but I keep thinking there is at least one piece of the puzzle missing.
When you talked to the farmer,what was his version of the past agreement?
It,s your land to do with as you please,just wondering if there isn't more to this story.

Whizz    Posted 03-13-2002 at 08:07:17       [Reply]  [No Email]
DJ, don't let this man bully you! You've gotten some sound advise from these folks so far. You should check out what you agreed to and did not agree to and see if you are bound by any agreements made by the previous owner. Have a sit down, face to face, meeting with the farmer and try to come o some reasonable agreement. $25 for one round bale is not a reasonable agreement. If no acceptable agreement can be reached, pitch him off YOUR property and give him no more than thirty days to get his hay moved. Until it is moved, it seems to me that what is consumed by the horses is a reasonable fee for storage of his hay on your property. I might be wrong (prolly am) but this is not the person I would like to have farming any of my property. BTDT, pitched him off and put up fences so he had to ask me for permission cross MY property to get to one of his other fields without going a long way around. Whizz
BTW, I do give him permission--each time he asks, but he MUST ask.

Amy    Posted 03-13-2002 at 11:54:01       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I always heard possesion was 9/10ths. Let YOUR horses into YOUR pasture and if they happen to eat some hay, well so be it. Maybe if he sees you are not intimidated, he'll change his tune. Might just be testing you.

Hogman    Posted 03-13-2002 at 09:51:46       [Reply]  [No Email]
Most places that works nicely so long as there is another point of engress available.

Another way dependin on how properties lay and this has to do with the "crosser". Buddy of mine bought a place back in USFS land was two more properties below Him with a jeep road runnin thru.
Feller from Sheekogo bought tha inbetween land and put a cable across atHis property line,told Buddy He could no longer cross. Good Buddy went back down road to first property owner,told Him what had happened,together They put a cable across at the road entry.
In very short order Mr Sheekogo expressed regrets at His momentary lapse of neighborlyness,sought forgiveness and removed His cable.

Whizz    Posted 03-13-2002 at 11:30:50       [Reply]  [No Email]
Yer right about another point of egress. I would never even attempt to deny anyone access to a field if that was the only way in. In my case, the gentleman had been farming the land on both sides of mine and using mine to grow hay. The previous owner of the property I bought had allowed him to do this in return for 1/3rd of the hay which was to be left in the pasture in round bales. When I bought the place, I was hoping for the same arrangment with maybe a little less hay for me. (my two hosses couldn't eat that much hay so it would have been wasted). He generously offered to sell me the hay (from my property) for $20 a bale providing I allowed him to continue his haying operation on my property. There was never any formal agreement. I grow my own hay now!

Mike in Va.    Posted 03-13-2002 at 08:06:09       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Hello DJ,
Don't know how it will work out for you, however, the one thing you have in your favor is intelligence. You didn't fly off the handle and act rash. So many would have. You kept your cool and that will pave the way for you through many of lifes bumps and detours. Nice example for the rest of us. Hope it works out for you, and let the rest of us know how you get along.
The last episode of the old tv show M.A.S.H. an Army psychologist told everyone just before they shipped home this:

"Ladies & gentlemen follow my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice..."

You stayed cool too.

Mudcat49    Posted 03-13-2002 at 07:11:40       [Reply]  [No Email]
I would ask him over for coffee and a doughnut and try to be nice and talk things over with him. If that doesn't work then I would get nasty, and when I am pi$$ed I can get nasty!!!!

PCC-AL    Posted 03-13-2002 at 06:41:58       [Reply]  [No Email]
Hi DJ,
The replies you are getting have good advice, but here is my 2 cents.
I know most folks hate lawyers worse that a hen hates square eggs, but this may be a good time to make limited use of one. Get his fees first-some have free consulation. Are you sure you know exactly what you purchased? Are there extra terms or conditions agreed to by you with anyone? If you simply bought your land and have no other obligations, I agree with the others. I would give the farmer written notice (certified mail) that I would not continue the arrangments of the previous owner and he could remove his hay within a reasonable time. I think you will be better off without him.
If you are landlocked, there are legal remedies to help you. Again, bite the bullet and see the mouthpiece. Good luck.

Sammie    Posted 03-13-2002 at 08:55:06       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I have to agree with this one. My attorney only charged me $100 for first consultation and to write a letter for me. Then I found out later that he kept following up with my realtor to make sure that everything worked out ok.

There are also things like Grandfathering that I have learned the hard way. If this arrangement has been going of for a long time and he has been crossing your land to get to his for along time, he may have a Grandfathered Right to cross your land. Stuff like that an attorney could help you with and it doesn't cost too much to find out.

What ever you do, don't let him push you around!! Just because he says he is the big cheeze doesn't make it so. You have rights to. Why don't you ask your attorney what $ is fair to charge this guy for storing his hay on your land which stops you from using YOUR land? And I would invest in a good hotwire fence.

Erich    Posted 03-13-2002 at 06:15:10       [Reply]  [No Email]
If you need to stay on his good side, don't knuckle under. He'll never respect you. Tell him to get his bales out of your pasture or you will charge him a storage fee (about $25 per bale seems right). Also tell him you intend to let your horses out where the bales are. Then make a deal with another farmer to cut hay on your land.
By the way, the bales are on your land. I wouldn't be surprised if a case couldn't be made that they are your bales.

PatM    Posted 03-13-2002 at 06:14:57       [Reply]  [No Email]
Tell him he's got 2 weeks to remove the bales, and that if they bales are not gone you'll consider them yours. Do that by registered mail, and keep a copy of the letter.

Didn't you get access easements with the property? Here in Colorado it's very difficult to sell "landlocked" property. Check your title/deed for the easements. If you own the roperty there's not much he can say about what you do.

Spence    Posted 03-13-2002 at 06:13:53       [Reply]  [No Email]
The purchase by yourself of your property nullified any non-registered arrangement the previous owner had with farmer. The only thing
you have to honour is what you accepted were conditions and stated in the deed and any right
of ways you have to honour. Read over your deed just in case.

Usually items that are affixed to your property
get transfered to you. Hay and fodder have their own timetable for removal and the farmer can argue that he cut and baled the hay under a previous arrangement but didn't have the time, or weather
to take it off. In a way as a farmer he carries a bit more say in the matter and usually a country court will lean in his favor, nature of the beast.

If it's a few bales like you say I'd let it go before it gets any worse. Let him have his way but tell him to get the stuff off the property and give him a couple of weeks to get it off. Do all conversing in registered mail.
25$ seems quite high as it was a good season around here for hay. A round bale here goes for 10$. You can go the bartering route but as you say your already getting bad vibes from this guy and I think your getting weasled into something.

As far as owning everything, seems like a lot of people are thinking that way lately. He's bound by laws and conditions like anyone else and wouldn't worry about that too much. This guy looks like someone to be avoided. I'd keep it polite
and wait for him to make the next move.

There's something else you have to think about.
While you don't have an arrangement with him and he's working on your property, your open for a lawsuit if your land isn't insured and he gets hurt. So the faster you drop this guy the better.

But yeahh, I'd drop it since your new and everyone is watching what you'll do. Besides it'll make him look bad too. Chances are, he's not that well liked around there either.

Erich    Posted 03-13-2002 at 11:04:40       [Reply]  [No Email]
After cooling down some and reading other posts, I want to change my answer to "yeah, what Spence said". I also admire the fact that DJ didn't fly off the handle right away like I did. My initial response points out both the advantage and disadvantage of giving and getting free advice: you get what you pay for.

DJ, Wonderful Advise!    Posted 03-13-2002 at 06:32:43       [Reply]  [No Email]
This is absolutely inspired. LOL

I knew I could find the assistance I needed from this group. What a wonderful asset in times like this!

You think like me, but I'm too emotional to think rationally at this time. We just moved in and this throwed me for a loop.

I can't WAIT to read the other comments from our posters here.


bob    Posted 03-13-2002 at 11:14:57       [Reply]  [No Email]
to not start a big war when i buy a piece of property i have a lawayer check in out I in genereal don,t like them but I have one that suits my needs. It is far easier to straighten out before you sign dotted line Good neighbors are priceless Baad neighbors are big problems. I don,t think here you can sell landlocked land and i,,m quite sure it would be tough to borrow against it. have him get his bales off and make a stipulation that he can,yt tear rutts an dcut fences . He might be the big cheese but your deed says you have control good luck bob

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