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To add your comments to this topic, click on one of the 'Reply' links below.

Since I'm asking questions.......
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Sammie    Posted 03-16-2002 at 16:12:24       [Reply]  [Send Email]
for those of you who know about rifles - I would like to buy one for target practice & personal protection for my home. I'm shot an M16. Loved it but I don't think that will work in this situation!! lol I've also fired a 12G but didn't like the kick. The 410 was rather "big" size wise and I don't trust to ask a salesman. Don't have a ment to pay for one. What would you recommend. Is a 22 big enough to take someone down in one shot if need be? not that I plan on it but I live alone.

Mark Bawden    Posted 03-18-2002 at 04:01:40       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Alot of great posts. Just remember, IF YOU LOOK LIKE PREY, YOU WILL BE EATEN!! Get a gun you are ready to use and are willing to use to save your butt! One of the main things you need to do is take a class in fire arms safty. This will help you learn your weapon and the laws that go with this weapon and what happens when you use it appropriately and unappropriately. This is comming from a police officer that deals with people that tried to use a gun but get it used against them. Be ready to use it or dont have one at all!

Sammie - excellent advice    Posted 03-18-2002 at 07:45:11       [Reply]  [No Email]
thank you. I don't look like prey - in my opinion. I'm 5'9", not frail by any means, still walk like a soldier and think that "Thou shalt not steal" covers all. If you read my post below, I have thought about this one quite a bit and do plan on a weapons safety course. I'm just getting ready to take my final in YCSheriff's SAR so I'm sure the deputies in my class can recommend a good one. As far as- would I shoot. My fear was always that I would shoot too soon - that was when my son was home. I don't have that fear now.

Thou shalt not steal what belongs to others, starting with God - respect, dignity, honor, truth, justice, love.

Thou shalt not through away what belongs to YOU - respect, dignity, honor, truth, justice, love

DJ    Posted 03-19-2002 at 05:07:49       [Reply]  [No Email]
If someone enters your home, and you're prepared to shoot, if they don't freeze, but take an offensive action and you have to shoot them, you're to tell the authorities, "I was afraid for myself and my family".

This is what I was told by a friend who owned a gun shop in Leavenworth Ks.

You may also ask God to keep the boogie men away to begin with.

Hogman    Posted 03-18-2002 at 15:09:10       [Reply]  [No Email]
Good post Lady! Sounds a lot like Maw Hog speakin!

PCC-AL    Posted 03-17-2002 at 19:00:34       [Reply]  [No Email]
Hi Sammie,
I have been reading your posts and replies to others, including mine. I think you are a reasonable person with a good head on your shoulders. That said, here is my opinion to your question.
Most of the replies are great. I strongly recommend a gun safety course such as those taught to ladies by the law enforcement agencies. If you like to shoot, get a 22. They are fun and inexpensive rifles. You can make accurate shots
up to about 75 yards. I'm speaking of within an inch of bullseye. If you eyesight is bad, like mine, a inexpensive scope will do wonders. These rifles are great for small game. Don't overlook the 22 pistols for fun also.
For personal protection in your home, get a shotgun. The gauge doesn't really matter. It can be 12, 16, or 20. Personally, for ladies, I like the 20 gauge pump, only because I had them already. A double-barrel is just as good and there are plenty of used Stevens brands out there for about $40.00. Get some # 1 buckshot for the human varmits and some # 6 shot for anything else. Both types of shells will come in the proper load for the shot. As previously said, you will never feel the kick. Finally, I agree with you about the time limitation you may find yourself in should you have an intruder. You may not have time to go to the gun cabinet and get what you need. Until the drug crazy mob invaded, most of our local law enforcement carried 357 mag revovler pistols. They changed over to 9mm sutos and put the 357s on sale. You can buy these ex-law enforcement guns dirt cheap (relative speaking) in our area. However, a 38 Special is just as good, in my opinion, for a lady at home. You said money was a concern, so I'm keeping the post to inexpensive thoughts. Get hollowpoint bullets for either the 357 or the 38. Both will do the job. You will knock down the person and he will not get up if you hit him anywhere above the legs and probably not then either. If you can afford a 9mm, I recommend the Glock. It is an unbelievable firearm made in Syrmna, GA, not too far from me. I have had one since they first came out and I have 17 shots in mine. The newer models have 19. This is all overkill as nobody, but law enforcement people in a shootout will ever need that many. From reading your post, I would suggest the shotgun first and then get the rfle and pistol. Good luck.

Salmoneye    Posted 03-18-2002 at 02:46:53       [Reply]  [Send Email]
All new Glocks (and all other semis) are limited to 10 shot clips for civilians.

Only mags over 10 rounds were built 'pre ban'.
They are legal to own and sell but they had to be made before the ban...

Thanks for the info-PCC-AL    Posted 03-18-2002 at 06:58:08       [Reply]  [No Email]
I didn't realize that Big Brother had gotten to the number of rounds already, but I'm not surprised. Thanks again.

Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-18-2002 at 08:32:07       [Reply]  [No Email]
Don't worry you can get all you want at this is a good site to sell and buy guns at. It is like EBay but gun related!! They have all the good stuff you can't find on the shelves any more. Take a look and you will see what I mean! Mark H.

Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-17-2002 at 10:19:40       [Reply]  [No Email]
Get a Mini-14 there cheaper then a AR-15 (civilian M-16) and use the same round if you want a nice plinker for fun!! Cheap ammo too. I have a 10-22 Ruger and it is a blast to shoot real cheap. My Springfield M1A-M14 is also nice to shoot even with a 30 roung mag in it. Kicks more but that one will kick up the dirt real good. My 12 ga. Riot Gun Parkised Black with extended Mag and 6-round in the tube and 6-on the butt stock with a sling is nice to take to the barn when you hear strange noises. The Ruger SP101 38 cal with +p+ Hydra Shock rounds is nice to carry concealed when walking around, no saftey to worry about being on. The Sub Sonic rounds are nice too they tranfer alot of energy and don't over penitrate. Glasser Safty Slugs work great for home use they will useley stop after one thickness of sheet rock but what they do to the first sheet is a different story. I like the 45 Cal too nice Automatic lots of good round to shoot in them. You have a lot of choices you can make in a Firearm and if you Hunt the list is endless. Mark H.

Salmoneye    Posted 03-17-2002 at 05:26:03       [Reply]  [Send Email]
20 GA with #3 buckshot.
20 pellets and no over penetration.
Will cut a moose in half at close range...

LazyHorse    Posted 03-16-2002 at 19:17:48       [Reply]  [No Email]
As a retired cop and firearms instructor, I have t say that most of the replies you've recieved are right on the money with a 12 gauge pump gun. My preference and most police agencies tend to prefer the Remington 870 which is bulletproof. also for defense I would reccomend federal number 4 buckshot. Works great as a defensive round and will not overpentrate indoors. One thing you don't want is a round going through a wall and injuring an innocent family member. If recoil is a problem as you mention just fit a good recoil pad on the weapon, in fact most today already come so equipped.
All that being said my personal choice for a home defense as well as target weapon is the old tried and true .45 acp Colt Government model. Sometimes a long gun is hard to get into play if needed, and the longer barrel makes it easier for someone to take away from you in the event you are slow on the trigger at a time when you shouldn't be. There are many frangible handgun rounds that will not overpenetrate walls, and are very effective on even doped up offenders.

Jim    Posted 03-13-2004 at 14:56:12       [Reply]  [Send Email]
If you want a great home defense round, go with the PMC Green frangible in .45 Auto. The bullet will turn to powder upon contact with anything harder than itself, therefore virtually eliminating any chance of a dangerous richochet or overpenetration. You can buy the ammo online if you cant find a dealer near you. carries it by the case!

pat    Posted 03-16-2002 at 18:33:08       [Reply]  [No Email]
like what has been said here , a 12 gauge is the way to go. a 20 gauge would even be ok the knockdown power of one is good, I have shot deer with my 20 with a slug, although I definatly prefer my 12 for that, but a 20 with some birdshot or buckshot should do ok for what yur talking about, a slug in these guns will be good for hunting game animals. The one thing you are talking about is for protection and safety just in case, I would be careful of how I worded that, the laws today could take that as almost premeditated, and land you in a heap of trouble, the thought of having it there will give you piece of mind for sure, I have one close by as well ,well in the gun rack,but... I have never had to even think about using it, I hope I never do, and the other last thing I will say since I am on a roll is definatly take a safety course, and be sure this is an important one ,,,IF YOU PULL IT OUT BE DAMN SURE YOU ARE PREPARED TO USE IT AND PAY THE CONSEQUENCES,,THERE IS NO TURNING BACK, AND IF YOU HAVE IT OUT AND DONT USE IT, IT WILL BE TAKEN FROM YOU AND,,WELL YOU GET THE PICTURE, get a big dog, I have a black lab who is big very friendly around kids and family and SOME neighbors,,,, but really will not let a man out of the car if my wife is home by herself,,,, good luck, hope ya make the right decision.

screaminghollow    Posted 03-17-2002 at 03:44:43       [Reply]  [No Email]
Amen on the dog. We have 44 secluded acres. a quarter mile from the road. Our Brittany is a teddy bear, but barks at strangers like he'll rip their heads off. If someone walks accross a corner of the property, he stands in the yard and barks in that direction. Best Burglar alarm I ever had. Only problem we had with folks prowling around at night was when he had to spend a few days at the vet. Our other dog, a blue heeler, doesn't bark until he's right on the intruder. He cornered a neighbor in the tool shed at three am.

Hogman    Posted 03-17-2002 at 04:07:14       [Reply]  [No Email]
A friendly Neighbor in need of a temporary tool loan and not wishing to awaken You?

kraig WY    Posted 03-16-2002 at 17:56:24       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Ust to teach firearm safty for ladies when I was on the police department. Also ran the Marksmanship Program for the Alaska National Guart for years. Short barreled 12 Ga pump is the gun of choice. Like Mark said there isn't too much kick w/ #8 2 3/4 dram trap loads.
But, there is nothing like the sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round. Working the action gets the attention. Our police department used the pumps for that reason. With rifles and pistols 99% of the people, men and ladies wont take the time up learn to use them propertly.

As far as target practice .22 single shots (bolt actions) I'm a 4H leader in Shooting sports. I wont let the kids shoot anything but single shots because I want them to learn to shoot instead of waste ammunition.

Butch in Ks    Posted 03-16-2002 at 17:51:29       [Reply]  [Send Email]
just the look of double shot gun is mean the noise of pump shot is convinceing but dont buy any shells that way you wont hurt yourself

Hogman    Posted 03-17-2002 at 03:42:29       [Reply]  [No Email]
Butch I know You mean well but that is not very good advice. An empty gun can get You killed!!!!!

Coupla times when I've been away Maw Hog has had reason. Positions Herself with a 357,heavy loads,and She's handy with it.Mind set?You bet. No worry about going thru walls or hittin a neighbor.
For Sammie as untrained this would not be the gun,but a LOADED shotgun sure would.
And Sammie, don't worry too much about the recoil. If You can stand to shoot it at all I promise You used against an intruder You will feel no recoil at all. Doubt for that matter You would even hear the shot. And,if You can remember to, shoot at least twice just in case there might be a little life left in'im.

Redneck    Posted 03-17-2002 at 03:46:55       [Reply]  [No Email]
Couldn't have said it better myself!

Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-16-2002 at 17:49:07       [Reply]  [No Email]
One thing else is I realy have my shotgun for Bear or Cougar at close range and you don't want something that will just get them mad. I would want to stop them or sometimes the noise from a 12 ga. is enought. I have other guns for different types of shooting. The 12ga. is at the back door with 6 shells (3-slug,3-00) in it just in case. Mark H.

F14...Wellllll    Posted 03-16-2002 at 17:18:09       [Reply]  [No Email]
For "personal protection" a rifle would not be my first choice. Also, "personal protection" can get you in a lot more trouble than it gets you out of, the way laws and lawyers are these days. Unless your life or the life of your family is in danger, it is a LOT cheaper to let the insurance company buy you new "stuff" than to pay a lawyer to try and keep you out of jail for shooting someone that breaks into your house.

That having been said, if you decide "personal protection" is right for you, the absolute best weapon for the amateur is a shotgun. You don't have to be accurate (difficult when wired on adrenaline, even for the pros) and you don't have to worry about overpenetration, ie, a bullet exiting your house and hitting an innocent bystander. If a 12 is too much for you, look into a 20. Stay away from .410, ammo is insanely expensive, and unless you're using slugs, it doesn't have the stopping power you're looking for.

For target shooting and general enjoyment, it's hard to beat a .22 rifle. A bolt action single-shot is the safest for a beginner, and there are a ton of them out there, in the $100 range. The Ruger 10-22 is also a nice weapon, but a bit more pricey. Once you've practiced enough to be accurate with it, a well placed .22 round will stop a lot bigger game than you'd think. It's illegal in most states to hunt larger game like deer with it, but it's just the ticket for most anything smaller, as long as the range is reasonable (say 50 yards or so).

todd    Posted 03-16-2002 at 17:16:51       [Reply]  [No Email]
A 22 is a good rifle but the shot would need to be placed very well. A shotgun even a 410 is very destructive and would do the job with one shot. I really hope you dont get in the position that you would have to use it in this way.

Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-16-2002 at 17:13:54       [Reply]  [No Email]
I would go for the 12 ga. Shot gun for home pertection. The shot won't penitrate walls to bad and since you have close neibors around you don't want rounds going thru there house. Use a smaller shot load like a number 6 or 8 for skeet it won't kick to bad. I perfer 00 or slugs infact I load both stagerd with the 00 first then a slug in 3" Mag. But I don't think you would like the kick. You can shoot from under your arm or from the side of your hip too and it won't hurt your sholder. Nice thing about a pump shot gun if you are on the other side of the door and you here the slide chamber the round you may not have to use it. You should take a course in firearm saftey REAL IMPORTANT!! If you don't know how to use it it may be used on you! Also be sure you can use it just having one is not enought. If you go for a pistol don't go larger then a .38 cal or 9mm they will do the job also. One thing a .22 cal will still travel a mile and is not a toy. They are used to drop a steer with think of what it will do to someone. Mark H.

Nathan(GA)    Posted 03-16-2002 at 16:51:00       [Reply]  [No Email]
If the shot is placed well, it'll do just fine!

Sammie- Thank you!!    Posted 03-16-2002 at 19:03:28       [Reply]  [No Email]
Considering the fact that my house proves I'm not rich, I figure anyone who is trying to get in while I'm home is coming in after ME!! A cop told me one time to shoot to kill and make sure they fall IN the house. As far as could I shoot. YES - You bet. Had to face that question the first time I sited my M16. Before, I didn't get one because my son was home and I was afraid I'd shoot him by mistake. He doesn't live here and I am the only one who has keys. The old man who lived here before had these great big "eye bolts" put in on either side of the doors into the frame and has big bars that go through the eyes and are bent so they can't be jarred back out. My door are solid and just don't think anyone is coming through that way. Windows are different. Heaven help the person who crawls through my window!! Living with myself after I have taken someone elses life would be hard but that is after. Am I supposed to wait and ask this guy after he has beaten and raped me if he is going to kill me now - "Wait a minute guy, I need to go get my rifle!!" Just breaking in while I am home is enough to threaten my life and to me I am justified.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I will definitely take your words into consideration and Yes, a gun safety course is a must - should be manditory for everyone.

As far as the law thinking it was premeditated - less premeditated that the person I shoot!!! Let them prove it!

pat    Posted 03-17-2002 at 23:02:48       [Reply]  [No Email]
heck not fur nuttin but,,,,,,,,,,,,,
from your description of the place ya livin, from what the old owner put in for protection and the like ,,,,,,,,,it dont sound like any back woods country place I want to live,,,,,,,,ya woried about getting broke into and raped??????????,,,,,,,,,you live in the country????,,,man I hardly ever even lock my damn doors the keys are always left in my trucks, the barns are open and machinery around , and I never have a problem,,,,, sounds like we got a bunch of tetosterone running here ,, altho I never knew woman had it,,,,,,, any way I think I will stay in my part of the back woods country , and away from a wack job that has to live in constant fear and worry about the outcome of life,,,

Sammie    Posted 03-18-2002 at 08:16:03       [Reply]  [No Email]
Part of it comes from being a "city folk" who has already been scared by the crime of living in the city - 5 times!! Partly, because the place I bought, while not exactly country, in county. I have a pasture with horses in it, an old chicken coop, garden, wood stove for primary heat, do canning & fill the freezer like I'm expecting to get snowed in every year and make all of my old clothes into quilts.

I'd like to point out that living in the country doesn't make you ammune to crime property or bodily. There is a reason why the people on this board know so much about guns.

Yakima is not known as "Little LA" for nothing and the city is spreading this way fast. As I said before, I think I didn't get far enough out. My neighborhood is nice and we all have 1+ to 20 acres - not big and used to be all one parcel in either orchards or pastures. Half mile to the south, that all changes, it's wide open land and pastures. half mile to the north, it's in legal limbo and may end up mulifamily housing. It is in orchard now.

As far as the locks from the previous owner, he was only broken into once - his step grandson. But Hugh was an old man, not in good health and yes, always afraid of being alone. Not that he had call to but "just in case".

Believe it or not, my mother, 2 sisters and I lived in the same house, in town, all of the years I was in school and NEVER locked our doors - the locks didn't work and we were never bothered. The world has changed.

Burrhead    Posted 03-16-2002 at 19:57:59       [Reply]  [No Email]
There's several of us here that had the M16 up close and personal training. They are a good gun.

I keep a sawed off pump 12 and a sawed off pump 20. I leave one in my pickup and one in my house just in case I get over run by yuppies or nutria rats.

Redneck    Posted 03-20-2002 at 02:31:41       [Reply]  [No Email]
Ain't nothing wrong cept there is just too many dang people.Put a pair of rabbits in a closed one square mile area with a pair of foxes.Chances are they will co-exist for a long time unless the fox finds them.A pretty sure bet says that as fast as rabbits do things there will be some survive to do that again.In not too far future there will be too many rabbits for the fox to keep thinned out.Soon desease,inbreeding will make the rabbits slower and the foxes will eat more of these fledging bunnies and it will cause a less clever,slower fox.Years pass and both animals keep this trend going until there is no more food for all these stupid,slow,lazy animals and they all will perish.Take the fence down and nature would have taken it's coarse to start with and there would have been room and food and the stong would have suvived to make the old world keep spinning.Now if an analizer see's this they would say why don't you send them poor animals a check and to see the vet and a make over on Oprah and........JUST TOO MANY DANG PEOPLE!

Sammie LOL!!!!    Posted 03-20-2002 at 10:47:49       [Reply]  [Send Email]
you are right!! Sometimes I think MAN is the snake in the garden cuz without us, the world would be just fine!! lol

Too many people - that's why I only had one and proud of him.

Is your "box" symbolic of country boundry lines? In which case, I might disagree with you. Too many people - already!! Keep the box shut!!

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