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Old Rifle
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PCC-AL    Posted 03-17-2002 at 16:21:20       [Reply]  [No Email]
Since there have been several gun posts and some folks seem interested, I'll tell about one of mine. It's my great-uncle's and been here a while.
It's a Winchester 32 caliber lever action with the octagon barrel. On top of the barrel forward of the rear sight is "Winchester Repeating Arms New Haven Connecticut." Below this line is "Kings Improvement Patented March 29, 1866, October 16, 1860." Behind the rear sight is "32 Caliber." Behind the hammer is "Model 1873."
It will still shoot, but the riflings are worn and it doesn't shoot so true. I just keep it for the memories. Let's hear about yours.

screaminghollow    Posted 03-19-2002 at 19:59:31       [Reply]  [No Email]
I bought an old Winchester single shot in 1967 for $4.50 at an auction. It was in 38-55. It had such a heavy barrel that it took some effort to carry it. There's two things about it which are very puzzling though. 1. It has peep sights and the front sight has a bubble thing just like on a carpenter's level. 2. You push the trigger front and then it will go off just by touching it sideways. It came with some old loading tool marked "Ideal" There was also a gizmo which looked like a shell casing on a handle. It is marked "A. Pope" I don't know what that is for. Can any one tell me what the handle with the shell casing thing is for?

Hogman----- Heads up    Posted 03-19-2002 at 21:29:57       [Reply]  [No Email]
You got a dandy old friend!!!!!!!!It's a heavy barrel cause it's a target rifle of tha first water. I'd expect it's a "HIGH WALL" being in that cartridge.
The front sight is a "LEVEL" sight so You can watch tha bubble and keep it level while sighting. It has double set trigger which ups the value and YOU DON'T PUSH THA TRIGGER SIDEWISE, Ya should be able to just touch it like a regular trigger once it's set.
The cartridge on the rod with handle is for seperate or breech loading. You put a bullet in the mouth of that case after pulling the rod back and push the whole thing into the chamber pushing the handle till it stops. That seats the bullet. You charge a empty primed case with powder and holding it upright and with muzzle pointing up You insert it into the chamber. Or, You can charge the case and put a wax plug or paper card over the powder to keep it from falling out.
What You have is a fine target outfit assuming the barrel is in any kind of shape.
Ideal is one of the oldest makers of reloading equipment in existance,I have scads of Their stuff.
Now the POPE insertion tool is another thing,seeing as it Has His name I'd expect He made it.Pope was one of the finest rifle barrel makers ever!!!and!!! Probabley better then Billinghurst or Brockway.. Some of Us start drooling at the very sound of the name.
YA WANNA DOUBLE YUR MONEY??????I'LL sure take it off'en Yur hands!!!
One last thing, what does the butt plate look like. Is it sorta hooked on the bottom and overhung on top????

Bob /Ont.    Posted 03-20-2002 at 07:46:38       [Reply]  [No Email]
Hi Hogman sounds like a winchester 79 a friend of mine has one in 32/40

Ludwig    Posted 03-18-2002 at 14:01:33       [Reply]  [No Email]
My dad's got a Winchester 94 in 38-55 with the
octagon barrel. That one is 6,xxx which is
pretty dang low for a 94, they made millions of
Dad also has a 94 in 32 special thats a half
octagon barrel. Its round in front and
octagonal from the foreend back. That one
also has a factory tang rear sight. Good
I shot my moose with Dad's Model 70
Winchester in .348 which is also pretty rare.

I had a chance once to buy a .32 Remington
pump for almost nothing. I still wish I had...

Hogman    Posted 03-18-2002 at 14:19:52       [Reply]  [No Email]
By Golly Ludwig a win 70 in 348 would be a rare one I was not aware They had ever chambered that one in any other'n tha lever gun made for it.
Thats a good basic case,shame more was not done with it. Think tha 7mm Gebby was one of only a few. Stout case,big capicity etc.

Ludwig - Uh, oh.    Posted 03-19-2002 at 18:06:12       [Reply]  [No Email]
Umm, hadta do a quick search on "Winchester Model 70". Umm, so it isn't a model 70, it is a lever gun...
So... Lets play identify the rifle.

Told you I'd shot a moose with it.

I'll email dad tomorrow..

Oh, wait. I checked my own dang site, its a Winchester model 71..... Dang.

Terry O    Posted 03-18-2002 at 10:41:08       [Reply]  [No Email]

That is a very neat rifle, my dad has one very much like it. He bought it in Texas in '41 when he was in basic training for WWII. I stand in line to get it - someday, no hurry. His shoots pretty straight, and is a lot of fun for a Saturday afternoon plinking session. Glad to hear someone else has one, and enjoys it.


kraig WY    Posted 03-18-2002 at 06:30:13       [Reply]  [Send Email]
If your interested you can sleeve the barrel. has sleeves for the .32, drills, and reamers. Its best done on a lathe but can be done with a slow electric drill. Run the drill down the barrel, silver soder the liner in place. Re-camber it for you calibar and it't almost like a new gun. I've done several, even target .22s and never had a problem. If done with care (crowning etc) you'll never beable to tell with the necked eye.

Spence Spanish 410 double    Posted 03-18-2002 at 06:00:06       [Reply]  [No Email]
One day bought a Spanish 410 double barrel back in the late 60's. It went for 39$ I remeber. It was packed in wax paper and grease in a cheap carboard box with the typical stenciling on the outside. This gun was hand scrolled in silver on the side and was well blued. The craftsmanship was excellent and I could never figure out why it went so cheap. The metalwork on some parts could have been better worked, but all in all was a pretty gun. It was great for storing and was real short when folded in half. Sorry I sold it.

Les...fortunate    Posted 03-18-2002 at 03:59:13       [Reply]  [No Email]
I've got a .32-40. My grandfather, who was born in 1875, bought it new and gave it to his father. Eventually it came back to him, then to my father and now to me. Some day, my son and grandson will continue this line of ownership.
Wish I had it in front of me so I could give you more details. I do remember that the serial # is 6??,???, which indicates it was made pre-1900. I've been offered a lot of money for it. It has slain a lot of bears and deer, plus varmints.

LazyHorse    Posted 03-17-2002 at 21:32:04       [Reply]  [No Email]
Your model 1873 winchester is a great old gun, and should shoot well with the proper loads. The initial rifling in those days wasn't real deep, and the cartridges were black powder instead of modern smokeless ammunition. I beleieve you can find a few suppliers for 32-20 winchester still making black podwer loads, whihc would probably shoot better than what you've been using.

DJ    Posted 03-17-2002 at 20:35:52       [Reply]  [No Email]
I'm afraid of guns......

My husband took out the girls, four of em. Let each shoot once. I was in the back and heard it.

I went to bed and had a bad dream. It was so real. I dreamt that I shot at a bird and the bullet went into a three story building. Looked like a military billet. It ended that the bullet hit a person inside and killed em.

When I woke up, I couldn't figure out if it had really happened or not. It was so real.........

I went on the run thinking that I would be found guilty of murder and put in prison for the rest of my life.

The dream was so real like, that my hands have broke out in a rash.

I can't believe how scared of guns I am. It ain't rational.

Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-17-2002 at 20:48:01       [Reply]  [No Email]
I have dreams about Vietnam won't talk about them but they are not nice! It was just a dream no matter how real it seemed. But if you are afraid of guns just don't touch them it is better that way. But don't let that stop you from letting your kids learn about them so they know what to do with one and have some safty taught to them about there use. They might find one or be around another kid that has one and they should know what to do just in case that happens. Mark H.

DJ thx Mark    Posted 03-17-2002 at 21:17:35       [Reply]  [No Email]
I try not to allow my fears to get transposed onto the children.

Yes they are being taught gun safety. We may look around for a class or something where they can get some formal lessons on gun safety.

I wonder if anyone here can suggest something?

My ex husband was in Viet Nam. He was an EOD and owned a mine dog. It messed up his life. He was a brilliant man. He took to too much alcohol. I read a poem of his that he wrote while in Nam. It was very sad. About his friends being carried away on a wagon. One was about the love of his life. How he missed her and the war kept him from her..........

God that war was such a crock of shit.

I was in the ninth grade when we had a national walk out. We all sat down on the floor and then we all walked out of the school in protest.

Have you read about the history of that stinkin war?

Vietnam Why did we go?

kraig WY    Posted 03-18-2002 at 06:22:32       [Reply]  [Send Email]
What a CROCK. Saw Mel Gibson's "We Were Soldiers" Last night. There was a part dealing with soldiers comming home to "nothing", no ticker tape prades, no kind greatings except for maybe a loved one or two. In stead we were greeted with "Dogs and Soldiers Keep Off the Grass". I was in the infrantry (2/502, 101 ABN DIV). The thing that hit me worst about that war was when I was spit on at the airport when I got home. When are people going to realise that soldiers don't start wars. I thought it was over. When are Vietnam Vetrans goint to be treated with the respect as other veterns instead of as Baby Killers?

Ira    Posted 03-18-2002 at 17:08:45       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Kraig When were you there. I was in D Co. 158 Aviation Bn. 101 Abn. Were you in Camp Evans or Phu Bai?

kraig WY    Posted 03-18-2002 at 20:59:01       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Jun 67 - Jun 68, Phu Bai We were still at Camp Eagle when I left. Heard of Firebase Bastone, My paltoon was the first ones there. It was a mortor range for the indians when I first got there.

Erich    Posted 03-18-2002 at 09:46:28       [Reply]  [No Email]

After long deliberation, I decided not to go. I protested the war and marched on Washington. I don't regret my decision, but I do regret that I didn't support the soldiers the way they deserved to be. I apologize to you for that.

kraig WY    Posted 03-18-2002 at 10:02:53       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I am not, nor have ever, complained about anyone's decision. Its just that Carter pardoned those who didn't go (and I agreed with that decision). But no one pardoned those who went.

Hogman-- AND THATS THA WHOLE DADBLAMED POINT!!!!    Posted 03-18-2002 at 14:12:20       [Reply]  [No Email]

The fact that it may have been a stupid war has abolutely no bearing on the people who fought it.

Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-18-2002 at 15:07:00       [Reply]  [No Email]
What if the next time we are needed and we don't go and it gets to our back yard I don't think they will protest I think they might have to fight!! I did not want it in my back yard so I went. Mark H.

Erich    Posted 03-18-2002 at 17:42:32       [Reply]  [No Email]
I still think it is up to us as individuals and as citizens to fight for the things we believe in and to protest against the things that we don't believe in. If it comes to our doorstep, I beieve that at least 95% of all the Vietnam protestors that I know would fight. For me the protests were about the fact that they weren't at our doorstep and were not about to come here. It behooves us as citizens to educate ourselves about the actions and motives of our government as well as the actions and motives of our enemies. It is imprudend and downright unpatriotic to assume benevolence for either.

Ray    Posted 03-19-2002 at 18:31:51       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I see you don't list your email address. Says a lot about you. I guess the world needs COWARDS like you, that way we can tell who the brave ones are. I second Mark's comments. I did two tours in VN as an 11B in the Big Red One. Thank God for men like Craig and Mark

Kraig WY    Posted 03-18-2002 at 21:05:09       [Reply]  [Send Email]
They weren't at our door step in 1939 either so we waited tell it was almost too late. Was too late for some in Hawaii and the Philipenes, and our Jewish brothers in Europe. Wonder how many lives could have been saved if we backed the British in 1939. Anybody ever heard of the SEATO. They was suppose to help us and we was suppose to help. What gives us pig farmers the knowledge to pick and choose? Frankly I aint that smart but I know right and wrong.

Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-18-2002 at 19:44:13       [Reply]  [No Email]
I find it depressing when people talk about there right to protest war when others are fighting it!! The rights they have were won by others losing their lives! I remember when I was there and the protests were happening. I thought it sucked that a bunch of protester putting the name of the United States down turning their backs on the Soldiers that were fighting a cause. A lot of names on the WALL gave there all and alot of guys are still giving to day! I see a lot of pictures of the protester it was a game to most of them just like the earth protester in Seattle busting up stuff running around with masks on beating people up. Well I guess there little war is OK to do cause they feel they have the right to do it. I think not, there are other ways to end things. Vote them out if you don't like it. The majority was running the war and it was RIGHT to go fight it. I hate WAR!! But I joined so did my Brother and Father we all fought for this country and I feel we have way more rights than any draft dodger should ever have! If you won't back our country then you should lose your rights, this is the best country in the world and we have done a few things that may not be right in the past but we are FREE! You had to be in Vietnam to under stand that war I knew the people I was helping and they had it a lot worst than we did. I looked into the eyes of the children YOU DID NOT!! You cannot even come close to understanding that war till you walk in the shoes of a soldier who fought it. You may have read books seen things in the papers and thought you were right but you wern't there I was! I would do it again if I was young once more. I am so angry to read this stuff you are saying that it hurts!! I wish I could type all the words I want to say! Mark H.

Burrhead    Posted 03-18-2002 at 20:20:08       [Reply]  [No Email]

Don't let a draft dodger get you riled Mark.

Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-18-2002 at 21:00:33       [Reply]  [No Email]
That is a subject that just gets me going. I think of all the soldiers who have died, sufferd or suffering still. All the parents, wives and children of those soldiers that did or still suffer and to admit you were a Draft Dodger in front of them??? That would take a fool or someone who just sucks off what others have done proudly in the name of America to give them some kind of sidistic enjoyment in upseting good people! Mark H.

Ira    Posted 03-19-2002 at 03:02:36       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I feel that the worst insult to us Nam Vets was the election of Clinton as president.

Hogman--AMEN AND AMEN    Posted 03-19-2002 at 09:05:31       [Reply]  [No Email]

Hogman    Posted 03-18-2002 at 15:21:25       [Reply]  [No Email]
Well stated Mark ,thank Ya.

Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-17-2002 at 22:01:42       [Reply]  [No Email]
First hand history being there, having a brother who spent 82 days of rocket fire at Khe Sahn. 1967-68 I had my time of drinking but quit and got my life back together. It is alot better now. Keep happy working on tractors for fun now! Feel better in the mornings also. Have read a lot on the war too. I was 18 years old when I was there. Mark H.

DJ    Posted 03-18-2002 at 05:10:48       [Reply]  [No Email]
Mark, I'm convinced that the contryside heals folks like you. If he *husband* had of moved to his grandfathers farm with his family (me) many many moons ago, I wonder if he couldn't have gotton it together too.

I think if you have wisdom and common sense, or if you have enough sense to develop it, we can overcome about anything and come out smelling like a rose. One of the things I've learned about healing is getting informed. Educating ourselves on what ails us helps tremendously.

I've known for years that living in the city is bad for the health; mental, physical and emotional. I'm already feeling a lot better.

Mark Hendershot    Posted 03-18-2002 at 06:46:19       [Reply]  [No Email]
You don't want to see how I get in the City being there very long!! The country is the best place to be! I hate going to the city and being in the crowds. Mark H.

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