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Country Discussion Topics
To add your comments to this topic, click on one of the 'Reply' links below.

Permit people gave me a scare!!
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Mark Hendershot    Posted 05-01-2002 at 20:04:24       [Reply]  [No Email]
The building Department called today and said you have wet lands on your property?? I told them you mean my lake? They said yes. I told them the road goes between the lake and the site for the barn. Well they wanted a set back from it and I was 300 ft from the lake and they said it had to be at least 250 ft so I met the requirement?!? This wet land requirements we have in Washington is getting worse then ever now. They told me you have lots of wildlife depending on the water being OK. I told them I guess I better stop making it so nice for them and causing them to come back in larger numbers since I moved here and cleaned the place up and put in so many nest boxes. They said why would you do that and I told them I don't want them to push me off my land. It wasn't this good for them when I moved here and because of me I get punished for doing good for them??? I told them maybe I should remove the fence from around the lake and let it go back the way it was befor. So be carefull if you build a pond that it don't come back and bite you not allowing you to build on your place! Now they are requireing you bigger set backs from water. I thought the road would cover that but the building people got new rules now. Glad this is the last building to be built here on the place!! I am tired of all the regs they have. I did get permission to build it but had to beg a little and bend a little too. They wonder why so many people are unemployed around here with all these rules, you can't get nothing done any more with out a bunch of hassle. We are loosing are rights more and more each day! Mark H.


DeadCarp - devils advocate    Posted 05-03-2002 at 05:18:09       [Reply]  [No Email]
I hate to side with the regulators, but there are darn good reasons they're worrying about wetlands. Human activity has killed-off over half the songbirds in the last 20 years, and the oldtimers can vouch for that. (some species are gone- far as our grandkids are concerned, they'll never hear one) Go outside and take a good listen - it's awful quiet compared to then. The pretty birdhouses are pretty empty now.

Our Mn duck population has halved in the last 5 years, and is down another 20% last year alone, so let's be patient with the poor bastards who were hired to turn these trends around. I hate regulations too, but then i'm weird enough to even cheer for Palestinian kids. :)


Mark Hendershot    Posted 05-03-2002 at 06:40:26       [Reply]  [No Email]
Your right about that and that is why I take care of my area. The problem is when they don't look at each area and just blanket one big rule to cover it all. I have more song birds and ducks around me then any other place on the whole top of this mountain. They wern't so many when I moved here but there sure is now! And if they had there way there would have been no changes and they would not have been a increse in the amount of them. Mark H.


Pitch    Posted 05-02-2002 at 18:23:50       [Reply]  [No Email]
I guess I am lucky. I am in NY and my county is quite easy goin on thing of this nature. I applied for my Septic permit and they asked who the contractor was and when I told them They said "oh, he knows what hes doing when he gets the deep hole done give us a call and we'll be out to take a look" so he did and they did we stood around the hole sharin local gossip and I got the permit 2 days later in the mail. Same with the building permit. I saw a whole list of things they had to inspect and asked how much notice thet needed before they could be out to look at all these items and the reply was "Well mostly we only actually look if we don't know the person doin the work but since you got so&so we probably ask you to take a couple of pictures next to a tape measure and then we'll be out when your all done for a final walk through" I guess it pays to live in small town America where we all have at least a nodding aquaintance with one another.


Hal/WA    Posted 05-02-2002 at 16:44:46       [Reply]  [No Email]
Mark, I would have thought that Okanogan County and the Colville Reservation would be more tolerant of a person's right to do what he wants on his own property unless it hurts someone else. I live in Spokane County, which has become more and more urbanized and regulated. I can see some of their regulations, but it is virtually impossible to get a conventional septic permit around here, even though most old, existing drainfields are working fine, while some of the pressure mounds made 10 or 15 years ago have already failed and most of them smell like a sewer some of the time.

The wetland issue is another gripe. I grew up on a 160 acre ranch where we raised cattle and almost all the feed to take care of them year round. There is a year round creek running through the property and the cattle had a reliable water supply. Of course they stepped in the water when they drank. When my Dad subdivided the property, I could have bought the area with the creek, which is excellent bottom farmland or damp pastureland. I even could have bought the land at a really attractive price, because it was the last parcel to sell. But I passed on it because I was hearing local people talk about their hassles with the powers that developed in the 70's and 80's. A local dairy along the same creek that had been there for more than 50 years ended up shutting down, at least partly because of the grief they were getting about manure runoff into the creek. The proposed countermeasures just cost way too much. I could see the possibility that the government would say that NO activity could occur within a distance (50, 100, 300 or who knows how many feet) from the water and that the area along the creek would have to be let go back to nature. There already are regulations about logging around streams. I was afraid that the property would become worthless, something I would not be allowed to use at all, but still highly taxed. So far this has not happened, but I sure can see the "environmental wackos" who live in the city and who have nothing to do with the country, making such rules.

I am interested in the loophole for agricultural buildings. I want to build a pole barn. The county says that ther has to be concrete around the treated poles, which friends who have been in the business of building pole buildings say is just plain stupid, unless you want your poles to rot off underground and adds considerably to the costs of the building. I will research that loophole. Maybe I can do the building the way I want to.

Thanks for letting me rant. I get mad every time I think about those #$%^& bureaucrats sticking their noses in what I believe should be my business.


Mark Hendershot    Posted 05-02-2002 at 18:18:46       [Reply]  [No Email]
The loop hole is that it used for agg perposes only. The reason for the concrete is for up lift in high winds, it weights the building down. If you use the 60% retention treated timber you should have no problem with rot. It would be better to raise the concrete above grade to keep it good and dry. If the sides are closed in you won't have a problem with wind getting under the roof line and causing the lift problem. The resavation is starting to get on the band wagon with the wet land thing now. It wasn't that way when I moved here 6 1/2 years ago. It will only get worse and that's why I want to get all the buildings in now! Mark H.


Alvin-Va    Posted 05-02-2002 at 08:20:17       [Reply]  [No Email]
You ain't seen nuthin yet.

Long link,hope I get it right.


Mark Hendershot    Posted 05-02-2002 at 08:27:38       [Reply]  [No Email]
You'll have to try that again. Mark H.


Alvin-Va    Posted 05-02-2002 at 08:26:53       [Reply]  [No Email]
Dang,never can remember to label them things.


Mark Hendershot    Posted 05-02-2002 at 08:33:09       [Reply]  [No Email]
That's just what we need apply to the federal goverment in a letter for a permit?? They won't even know what it is like where you live but they will deside how you should do it??? Mark H.


bob ny    Posted 05-02-2002 at 11:51:22       [Reply]  [No Email]
but every house in the country will be built the same and the guvinment will have akey to it


LazyHorse    Posted 05-02-2002 at 06:47:11       [Reply]  [No Email]
Mark and all you make some very valid points regarding permits and laws. Personally I have no problems with building codes which are desinged to protect the people from unsafe structures. But I also firmly believe our government is getting out of hand encroaching upon our idividual rights by dictating where and how we can build anything on privately owned land, that we continually pay taxes to own. Another thing that really bugs me is all the inspections required just so the county inspections office can make addiditonal money just by visiting your construction site whenever they choose to check up on your building progress. Talk about taxation without representation. Oh well good luck on your project Mark.


bob ny    Posted 05-02-2002 at 07:08:56       [Reply]  [No Email]
in our town you are not alowwed to build any structer between the front line of your house and
the road my house is 100 ft from the rear of our property and 2200 ft from the road just think of
all that land ( woods) that i can not use


dave2N    Posted 05-02-2002 at 10:28:28       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I'm from NY too; I'm not siding with all of the regs. because they are ridiculous. However, we have the sme law in our town too but it is easy to get a variance; I've done it a couple of times. You might want to check into this.


bob ny    Posted 05-02-2002 at 11:45:03       [Reply]  [No Email]
i restore old tractors and later i would like to build a larger shop when i finnish the plans i'll approach the board with that in mind it's
just that you buy a house out in the woods to get rid of politics and sooner or later they find you


Mark Hendershot    Posted 05-02-2002 at 07:47:41       [Reply]  [No Email]
Boy that is a stupid one!!! I can maybe see that on 60 X 120 lots but that is a nice chunk of land to lose the rights to build on! I wonder who came up with that idea to make life easier for everyone??? Mark H.


bob ny    Posted 05-02-2002 at 10:11:01       [Reply]  [No Email]
probably the legeslater had nieghbor with a small lot and wanted to build a shed in the front yard you cant see our house untill you are about 400 ft from it coming up our drive
we are completly surrounded with woods last
night we had a bear on our deck he left claw marks deep into the railing we had plastic snow
fence around the bottem of the deck tore that
destroyed a bird feeder bent a 3/8 in rod holding
it up


Mark Hendershot    Posted 05-02-2002 at 06:58:21       [Reply]  [No Email]
Nice thing is I have a AGG Permit for the barn. I won't even see any one for a inspection. They don't even come out. You can build up to 4,000 sq. ft. of a building as long as it is used for farming stuff. They just hassle you in town to get it. Once you have it they don't care how you build it. I am zoned farming and aguclture so you can do things that you would never be able to do in town. Mark H.


Tyler(WA)    Posted 05-02-2002 at 06:44:30       [Reply]  [No Email]
I live in Washington too, Mark. Before I applied to short platt my land, I read the application. It asked if ANY wildlife nested, traversed or fed on my land. Especially, herons, eagles or birds of prey.

Well, we had a big fir tree that had a perfect branch for bald eagles and herons to perch. We loved watching them from our deck, all summer. That fall, I cut that 90' tall tree down for firewood because it was "in the way." You're allowed to cut up to 10% of your standing trees without a permit and I made sure that a select 10% would allow me to make honest permit applications.

SINCE we cleared 3+ acres, we've seen more wildlife than ever before. Had they been visable before, I wouldn't have been allowed to work my own land.


Mark Hendershot    Posted 05-02-2002 at 06:53:14       [Reply]  [No Email]
Your right! You can clear things you and more will come. Since I have been building around the place more things hang out now. They just don't understand the system they think only mother nature can do the right thing. I have Eagles, Hawks and Herions too. You just don't want to tell them that. That is a whole can of worms to open up. I live under the flight paths of the Swans, Cranes and Geese too. There was just 1,000s of them the flew over head latly you can hear them when they come. They will circle around above the house getting in bigger groups then form these big Vs and head off. The Swans will land in the water sometimes and it looks neat to see them. Mark H.


Jerry B    Posted 05-02-2002 at 06:27:39       [Reply]  [No Email]
I hate to say it, and I dislike violence,BUT wwe as a people are going to have to start standing up for ourselves and our neighbors. We the bureaucrats start showing up some place everyone in the neighborhood needs to show up and make thier job/lives a living hell. Done often enough, I believe things wouls change for the better.


Dennis    Posted 05-02-2002 at 06:54:06       [Reply]  [No Email]
I agree that the only way change is going to come about is if ALL the local people jam the city, county, state meetings with protests. Once again this is how the minority people get things done their way.
But remember all change costs something and unless we are willing, as a people, to pay that cost nothing will get done.
We have the most powerful tool in the internet and all we have to do is use that too. E-mail your reps both local and in DC, protest at meetings, protests at city hall.
The people who make the rules live in a concrete society in Washington DC and know nothing of what's really real and they get their information second hand. GIVE IT TO THEM 1ST HAND. As far as permits go a BIG dog helps. Also the locals are afraid of lawsuits and the local newspapers love printing about people standing up for themselves. Letters to the editor is a good start, with names.

From a use to be inspector.

Thank you for letting me vent.



Mark Hendershot    Posted 05-02-2002 at 06:45:43       [Reply]  [No Email]
I keep a ACE in the hole for that time. I know of some building insectors who have done some illegal building on there own place. I know people who build things and they talk. So if push comes to shove I will just bring that up to a few of them if they get to carried away. I allways try to build to code or better but just want to be left alone on my place. I realy don't need there input on how I live here! Mark H.


hay    Posted 05-02-2002 at 05:06:04       [Reply]  [No Email]
we have the "permit police" here too. when i was applying for a building/waste disposal permit they had to come and take soil analysis and site location studies. when they saw the pond on my land they "advised" me on a new location somewhat further from my original plan. while the permits could be issued and construction started, they said that the septic operating permit would not be issued until all structures and waste disposal was in place. in other words, if i did not play their stupid game, then i could not operate my septic system and therefore not occupy my house.also, the same permit department could not even agree among themselves the exact amout of field lines needed for my system. they issued the permit with a varible so the inspectors could reject it at will and get more money for additional "studies". what a ripoff. i think this is done on purpose to 1) make lots of money for the county/private engineers 2) drive the land/homeowner absoultly crazy. after all i went through, i decided to sell my place and buy somewhere else that the rules/regulations are not so crazy. sure hope i can find such a place. sorry, this is so long, but all this is a very sore subject for me.


Mark Hendershot    Posted 05-02-2002 at 08:26:06       [Reply]  [No Email]
Your right it is a Power Thing they pull on ya! They think they are protecting you from your self. The games are the part that make me mad, when it dose not make any sence to ya but they still want you to do it there way. I once had a problem with my bedroom windows in the house. They said they need to open 1 more inch to be legal for a bedroom. I asked why and they said if the fire department was tring to get into the second story of your house to save you they would have a harder time getting in. I told them we don't have structure fire fighter around here. The nearest ladder truck is 30-40 miniuts away and if I was still in the house they would not need to get me out real soon. I had to put one more window in each bedroom to get aprovel for cover to make them happy! They also said it is a dumb rule but it's the law and you have to conform or you don't get to move in! Mark H.


cornfused    Posted 05-02-2002 at 04:46:31       [Reply]  [No Email]
Mark do you have a website for information on making nest boxes? I have a pair of Mallards that stop here on occasion and I would like them to stay.


Mark Hendershot    Posted 05-02-2002 at 06:40:38       [Reply]  [No Email]
The Mallards are ground nesters. If you have some tall grass and some shallow water for there eating habits (Dabbers) they should stick around. You need reeds for the Coots, Red Heads, Ruddy Ducks, Pin heads, Buffle Heads and Pied Bill Greebs. They also want deeper water because they are deep water divers and like the veggies under the water to eat. With my lake low in some spots now the Mallards love it. Before just the deep water divers and reed nesting ducks would come. The reeds play a important part since they build nests in them. The red wing and Yellow headed Black birds love them to. They pull them together to make the nests. You need nest boxes just for the Wood Ducks. I build the nest boxes for the Swallows and blue birds, the eat lots of bugs around the place. I must have 100+ Mud swallows hanging out right now and probley 50 plus nests and if you figure 4 or so babys per nest that will be 200-300 in a while. There will be around 600 birds hatched during the spring & summer and about 80 to 180 baby ducks in a good year. So itget real noisy around here during hatching time. Right now I can look out the windows and see swallows flying all over the place building nests. Mark H.


Mudcat49    Posted 05-02-2002 at 03:43:03       [Reply]  [No Email]
If a farmer has a little "LOW WET" spot on his land about as big as a pickup truck he can't fill it in and has to farm around it. BUT iffen they want to build a golf course they can fill in hundreds of acres of wetlands!!


Hogman-THATS CAUSE GOLFERS HAVE MORE BALLS    Posted 05-03-2002 at 03:48:29       [Reply]  [No Email]
NO LAUGH HERE !!!!


Nathan(GA)    Posted 05-01-2002 at 20:13:08       [Reply]  [No Email]
Yep, sure are!

Around here they protect the wetlands too. That is, unless a new road needs to be put through.

They are building the Fall Line Freeway through GA now. It's a divided 4 lane. Already tore up a bunch of homesteads and moved a cemetary. They are fighting the Indians now over going through some mounds in a park.

Glad you got your permit!


Mark Hendershot    Posted 05-01-2002 at 20:23:15       [Reply]  [No Email]
I probly would have built it anyway to spite them. There are so many things built around her with out permits homes to!! I follow the rules and it costs me. I just don't understand when I make it better for the birds with the place, more feed for them due to my animals feed, work my but off to keep it right and I just have to fight them all the way. Makes you wonder why some people drain the wet lands. Don't get me wrong I came from a place in Washington that was worse and I knew it would get that way here to, but not this soon. I am glad I can do it the way I want because you won't be able in the future to do it. Mark H.


bob ny    Posted 05-02-2002 at 07:15:29       [Reply]  [No Email]
if you realy want to get them upset raise about
100 mascovey ducks on your property line they smell for tears after thier gone been there done that


bob ny    Posted 05-02-2002 at 10:18:49       [Reply]  [No Email]
when we had the farm we did a lot of things to keep the bill collecters off our necks from raising quail and pheasants to buying and selling bob calves to buying and selling dented cans from grocery stores i even was a part time auctioneerfor a livrstock auction and drove cab in town


Mark Hendershot    Posted 05-02-2002 at 07:50:58       [Reply]  [No Email]
I only have wild ducks here that way I don't have to take care of them during the winter. Have the best of both worlds that way. Mark H.


Redneck    Posted 05-02-2002 at 03:43:30       [Reply]  [No Email]
Too many chiefs and not near enough Indians.As long as it is our place they are regulating it's fine,build a hog pen in their neck of the woods and watch them holler!


Mark Hendershot    Posted 05-02-2002 at 07:02:54       [Reply]  [No Email]
They put there pants on just like I do. If you go to there place and start telling them how to do things they get up set about it. I will stand my ground at the building department. Have been known to be thrown out of a few places concerning the Goverment. I like a good fight once in a while when I feel I have been wronged! Mark H.


AndyH    Posted 05-02-2002 at 14:00:26       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Maybe I should keep my mouth shut, but in Vernon County Wisconsin, where I have a "retirement" place there is no zoning or building codes. When I built my cabin it cost me $50 for a "house" building permit. I did the whole permit process through the mail with my township (maybe that's why they call it Liberty Township) and I didn't have to supply any plans. No one has come out to inspect. When I built my 30x40 pole barn it cost me $25 for a shed permit. If and when I run a septic system, I have to get the county involved. About the only building code I have to worry about is not to build any structure within 30 ft of the property line. With 20 acres, that shouldn't be to hard.

Well I guess the cat is out of the bag and now Vernon County will be awash with folks escaping permit H*LL.
-AndyH


WallSal55    Posted 05-02-2002 at 14:09:49       [Reply]  [No Email]
My husband and mother-in-law wanted to put in a
pond for fishing, and aesthetic looks. After
going to the county, to get permission and a soil
test, they were told "no" That it was zoned
wet lands, and the soil type wouldn't hold water.
The surrounding land is being used for other
purposes, too. But before you buy land to put a
pond on, check it out first!


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