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Country Discussion Topics
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Schools and Higher Education...
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tina    Posted 11-18-2004 at 18:36:27       [Reply]  [No Email]
Been reading about the trials and tribulations down below that some of you are dealing with. Thought I would share my own problems...


My son is 8 years old, in 3rd Grade. We live in a very rural area, and he attends a small public school.
I started getting crap from the school at his Kindergarten screening. I am not a social person, neither is my Husband. As a result, neither is our son. he had limited access to other kids his age, as I can not STAND most other peoples kids. I expect a kid to mind, and be polite, and well, that just doesn't happen anymore. We have a lot of machinery around here, and a lot of customers in and out daily. As a result, there will be no running around and screaming like a chicken with it's head cut off, you will be aware of your surroundings, and No, that Dozer is not a Jungle Gym, iron is very unforgiving. And when I speak, you will JUMP. That is how he has been raised.
Now, back to Kindergarten screening. I had to leave him alone in a room with a woman he had never met before. He would not speak to her, nor answer her questions. I didn't raise him to talk to complete strangers. Of the questions he did answer, he got one wrong, and the woman was simply aghast...'How could he NOT KNOW how many wheels a Scooter has? ALLLLLL the children have them...' After the top of my head blew off, I explained that HE didn't know anything about a scooter, because HE DIDN'T HAVE ONE. We don't live in town, with paved driveways, ya know. Now, if she had asked him how many grousers there were on each track of the HD-16, I'm pretty sure he would have nailed it, but of course, she would have no idea what a grouser was.
To make a long story short, fast forward to the end of the last school year, and the beginning of this one.
The school and all it's 'educators' keep trying to 'label' my son. They feel he has a problem, though they don't know what it is. I'll give you a brief list of his 'abnormalities'.
He is polite. He uses formal manners when meeting someone, and shakes hands and introduces himself. He HATES the lunchroom, which is so out of control, that I can't believe they run a place like that. He has strong interests in things that they don't understand. Like motors. Electricity. Geography. He reads EVERY night before bed. One night last summer, Dad sent him to bed with 'How to rebuild your Small Block Chevy'. And he read it. And then he supervised the building of my small block 327 that went in my '65 Chevy. He knows the difference between the crankshaft and the camshaft, and he knows what their jobs are. He, with supervision, adjusted the valves. He loves maps, I supply him with all the maps he could possibly want. He can and will tell you the best way to get from here to San Francisco. I could go on and on and on. And don't get me wrong, he is far from perfect and when he screws up I jump on him with both feet, because he WILL be a responsible human being. The schools concern? 'Why doesn't he watch Sponge Bob?' 'He's not interested in the same things the other kids are...' 'He talks 'above' the other kids, and uses a bigger vocabulary.'

This probably doesn't make a lick of sense, but I turn into a blithering idiot every time I think about this. I am floored by the fact that by bringing up my son the way I was brought up, to actually know something and be able to use your hands to build something, that makes him 'abnormal'.


Rowdy Yates    Posted 11-20-2004 at 13:31:48       [Reply]  [No Email]
I'm right with ya in this one!!!!!

Practically have the exact same thing just happen with me and my 3rd grade son. The teacher says that he "stands out", because he is well mannered and isn't swinging from the rafters and he is shy. He never attended any preschool or babysitting, but has always had alot of interaction with other kids. Schools expect your kid to have attended preschool and be able to read and write before kindergarten! Fact is the education system is a joke!! I wish that I could make $50,000 plus a year and have almost half the year off! I never could understand the "poor underpaid teacher" garbage. I live in one of the poorest parts of the country and they are making this kind of cash! Makes no difference if you're the smartest person in the world, the only jobs left are at Wal-mart!


slim    Posted 11-19-2004 at 07:41:25       [Reply]  [No Email]
I'm not an educator but my wife, sister-in-law, and many friends either are or were. But I think I see your problem. Your child doesn't fit into their system. That's not necessarily a bad problem especially in your case. But they don't know what to do with him. They are set up to handle only the "average" or "normal" child. They are not set up to handle gifted or above average children. Don't let them change him. Looks like you have a special child. We should all be so lucky.

slim


MJ In SC    Posted 11-19-2004 at 06:54:58       [Reply]  [No Email]
Tina, I know what kind of folks run the schools these days! From your description, your son is a very bright, well mannered young person and stand very proud of that. As a homeschool mom, I too had my battles with the schools before we opted to homeschool. It was the best decision for our child and we have no regrets. Our final straw with the school district was when I went to the guidance counselor (3rd grade) and was checking on the standardized test scores....MAT7. She said and I quote, "Matt, is doing wonderful! He's scored 2 grade levels ahead of his current grade." I then asked, "Well, what are we going to do for him? He's bored with school, and losing interest." (This is after I had already spent the past two years trying to get them to more him ahead or atleast give him more challenging classes!) The counselor looked me square in the face and said, "Well, do you still work with him at home?" To which I replied, "No, not on a regular basis (we homeschooled in kindergarden), but if he comes to us and asks, how do you do mutiplication, we explain it." The Counselor, replied (NO JOKE!), "Well, maybe you shouldn't work with him so much at home." My mouth fell open and I just stood there! Talk about total shock! I thought teachers LIKED parents who where involved....my mistake! They want parents to think they are God and not question their decisions about OUR kids. That was it. We pulled our son for 4th grade and haven't looked back. He' in the 8th grade this year and last year his standardized test (Stanford 9) showed that he's teting on the 10 grade 8 month level. That was in 7th grade!!! Just think what could have happened if I had listened to the counselor and left him to stagnate in the system!

I know the first arguement that you'll get...what about his social skills?? Do you really want them learning their social skills from other kids their age? That's where they get them from....not the teacher. There are plenty of opportunities for social interaction. I feel that's one of the biggest concerns that holds people back from homeschooling. There are support groups that provide field trips, outings, classes, etc for homeschoolers. Besides that, most children now are into extra cirricular activities. Our son has Scouts on Mondays, Ham Radio Meetings on 1st Tuedays, Fire Department Meeting ons 2 and 4th Tuesdays, Bee Keepers meeting on 4th Tuesdays, Youth Group on Wednesday evenings, Homeschool co-op classes Thursday mornings, Friday and Saturdays are usually sleepovers here or at friends houses and Sunday if church. How much more social time can one person take!! LOL He decided this year not to do rec. league soccer since his plate was already so full. He's played soccer since he was 5, both Spring and Fall leagues.

Tina, listen to your heart. The good Lord gives Mom's instincts for a reason.....we're usually right! Do what you feel if best for your son. YOU know him a whole lot better than any person sitting in a room giving a "test".

Besides, from the list of values your family has already instilled in this little fellow, he's already received the best "homeschooling" from you. He's learned a whole list of life skills that he'd never learn sitting in a classroom. We tend to forget that the first 4-5 years we ALL homeschool. When you sit with your toddler and read to them, sing the ABC's, play games together, or explain how that piece of machinery works.......guess what, you are homeschooling!!!

Toolman, I'll have to disagree with your statement, "in todays world unfortunately we have to find a way to live with the regulations and regulators, that means he has to attend some kind of school and get along in their world" They have the legal option, under law, to homeschool their child.

Most homeschooled children test 2-5 years above their grade levels which makes them really appealing to colleges and tech schools. Not only the high test scores, but most homeschoolers are well-rounded, well-disciplined, self motivators and that's the kind of students the colleges want. They know that homeschoolers aren't afraid to think outside the box and use all things available to them. Many colleges even have homeschool days to show just how much they want homeschoolers to apply.

I agree with you in saying that "there is no substuite for hands on every day experience, it just doesn't teach you how to build a motor as in what you mentioned , it helps you to look , anylize, solved problems that you will encounter in the real world in everything he comes across"

The problem with most "school" settings is the children are NOT learning they are just required to reguritate the information they are required to memorize. With homeschooling you have the option of using the learning style that suits your child. Some children learn by doing, others by hearing and yet others must see to learn. That's the wonderful thing about homeschooling, your child is not stuffed into a mold of what style the particular teacher uses, but you use the God given special gifts to teach your child the best way for him or her.

I believe if the schools have to spend 6 weeks or more "teaching" the test (here in SC it's the PACT they use for standarized testing) there's something wrong. They shouldn't be permitted to do so. If the teacher is teaching and the kids are getting it, the test would tell.....HMMMMM maybe that's why they spend atleast 6 wks in our district "preparing for the PACT"

Just my 2 cents!


hay    Posted 11-19-2004 at 06:49:16       [Reply]  [No Email]
congrats on have a very bright child. i read somewhere long ago that the present public school system was actually meant only for the rich people to further their education and further oppress the less fortunate. good thing that did not happen. however i would like to know where all the massive amounts of money that we pay for public education is really going? to pay for sports coaches and special education, but very little for real teaching skills like math, science, geography, etc.i think if i had your situation, i would look hard at home schooling. at first i was skeptical about it, but after seeing the result from some young children in my neighborhood, it think it is a great opportunity not to be missed.one thing the public education system has that is unequalled is a they have a lot of money and a lot of idiots to throw it away on mindless programs.


Rickstir    Posted 11-19-2004 at 03:45:50       [Reply]  [No Email]
You sound like a perfect example for home schooling. Take advantage of state programs that offer curricullum and advisor assistance. By all means, attend board meetings and talk about your concerns. You have a perfect right, for the sake of your child, to go over their heads to the state. Have a state counsolor give your child an IQ test.


jfky    Posted 11-19-2004 at 03:04:31       [Reply]  [No Email]
being in education for almost 12 years I could really add to this ---but I won't


BOSS    Posted 11-19-2004 at 03:01:23       [Reply]  [No Email]
THats why, even though we pay outragous taxes where I live, we still send our daughter to a private school. She, and we, don't need the hassles.


Zenia    Posted 11-18-2004 at 20:13:43       [Reply]  [No Email]
Most everything I learned, I learned at home. Your son sounds like a very charming boy.


KellyGa    Posted 11-18-2004 at 18:58:09       [Reply]  [No Email]
Tina, I know EXACTLY what you are talking about! Her school also did a little test like that. The fact that she had not been thrown into a preschool seemed odd I guess, and I am convinced they had a preconcieved notion that she was going to be behind the other kids. She was in school for two weeks, TWO WEEKS, and they wanted to put her in EIP, Early Intervention Program. Why? She was quiet, not very outspoken, shy. She didn't kow how to write her name well yet. She didn't seem to play with all the other kids right away. I tell you why, they just wanted to have kids in their newly funded program, they didn't want to lose the funding. Now, they convinced me to let her try it out. NO kid wants to be singled out like that, have to leave regular class to go to some special class. SHe was in it for only two weeks, and they will probably credit all her good grades to the EIP, which is totally crap. She was taught SO much by ME before she even started school. She was and is very smart. Just because a kid isnt running around and screaming and skipping and hanging from the rafters with all the other kids doesnt mean they are abnormal..Shelby is a very independent thinker. She doesnt require anybody else to play with, as a matter of fact, she would rather play by herself a lot of times, so she can do it HER way. Whatever she is playing! Nothing wrong with that.

Dont let them tell you anything is wrong. NOTHING is wrong. He is just a well behaved, well mannered kid. Shelby has always done her own thing, and it hasnt always been mainstream, what kids should know, like Spongebob, but she does her thing, and thats okay with me.

Sounds like he is a very bright young man. He is going to get sick of schol just like Shelby has if they don't quit.


tina    Posted 11-18-2004 at 19:15:45       [Reply]  [No Email]
Yep, he would much rather play by himself, and is quite capable of entertaining himself...Hmmm, what a novel concept. Good Grief.


KellyGa    Posted 11-18-2004 at 19:17:25       [Reply]  [No Email]
I think our kids are the best...but hey...I am biased. lol Any kid that can think for himslef and do for himself and be happy, who cares what others think? :) YOur a good mom, dont let anybody tell you any different. YOu probably have the makings of a genius...


Doc    Posted 11-18-2004 at 18:45:23       [Reply]  [No Email]
Wow tina, we should all have such problems with our kids. Sounds like your doing a very good job with yours.


Clod    Posted 11-18-2004 at 19:02:49       [Reply]  [No Email]
Yes,Your child is odd.But so was Testla and Thomas Edison. I do not think either would have been allowed to become great inventors in todays society.To learn technical matters is not something the education system cares for. Comedy workshop sponsored by the taxpayers.


tina    Posted 11-18-2004 at 19:14:16       [Reply]  [No Email]
'Comedy Workshop sponsered by the Taxpayers'.

Thank You!!! I'm going to write that one down so I remember it. It's the most apt description that I have heard in a long time.
Yes, he's odd, I guess, and I like it that way, as he seems perfectly happy.
You should have seen their faces when I told them that his maternal Grandfather built his own personal submarine, just for shi!s and giggles, and his paternal Grandfather was a model maker for Xerox. His group designed and built the first laser printer. With their hands, and their heads. Without a College degree.
And I agree with you, the time of Great Inventors is long gone...


Clod    Posted 11-18-2004 at 19:43:33       [Reply]  [No Email]
You can tell what influences are today in the younger minds. Things made and invented in foreign nations while the children are taught things like communication skills. They are taught to be managers not producers .They are taght that there is no respect for those who get their hands dirty doing things.The leaders can just comminicate and be diplomats and everything falls into place. Dreams of fools. Fools who call themselves educators.


toolman    Posted 11-18-2004 at 19:39:44       [Reply]  [No Email]
tina, in todays world unfortunately we have to find a way to live with the regulations and regulators, that means he has to attend some kind of school and get along in their world, but i,ll tell you one thing i think you are preparing him to be able to complete in the real world as he grows, there is no substuite for hands on every day experience, it just doesn,t teach you how to build a motor as in what you mentioned , it helps you to look , anylize, solved problems that you will encounter in the real world in everything he comes across, keep doin what your doing i don,t think a parent could do any better, and try and find a way to work around and deal with the rest, you seem very intelligent, you know that social skills are important also, and maybe taught from you would be better than some stranger in a classroom who is more worried in making it to happy hour after claas that the kids .good luck and keep up the good work.i learnt more working with my hands on all kinds of different jobs than i ever learnt in school, and i learnt respect for the people i worked with who took the time to teach me.


Clod    Posted 11-18-2004 at 19:51:00       [Reply]  [No Email]
Classes are taught by life the had way what should have been taught in schools.But teachers and professors make their living by sitting at desk. They think everyone should be interested in a sitting job. The person who built the desk and chair they sit in could not do the job sitting on his rear end.He had to get his hands busy and also his brain.


toolman    Posted 11-18-2004 at 19:58:43       [Reply]  [No Email]
you got that right buddy.


Clod    Posted 11-18-2004 at 20:19:11       [Reply]  [No Email]
Ofcourse you have to be a clown in their circus or the socialist will take your child. Well,,Toolman I have to get some rest so I can go get greasy tomarrow. See you same time same place.


toolman    Posted 11-18-2004 at 20:38:03       [Reply]  [No Email]
you bet buddy have a good one i got a bunch of work to do yet here before i hit the sack, goodnight.


Pitch    Posted 11-19-2004 at 02:10:33       [Reply]  [No Email]
Yeah youv'e gotta watch the schools with an eagle eye. My oldest now 16 was in first or second grade we got called in. Seems that she was having trouble with her reading skills. This struck us as odd because this kid was reading before she went to kindergarten simple stuff yes but was reading when most of her peers couldn't even wipe their own butts properly. Well according to their expert she was learning disabled and would need to go into a special class,according to this bitxx she was one step above the short bus but that was about it. We told them no way , that she would remain right where she was at and would have to stuggle alone the best she could.Fast forward 9 years this kid has been an A student all through school has been a National jr. honor roll student and a national honor roll student has taken advanced placement courses and has enough credits to graduate now in her junior year and is taking a few college courses at this time.
Our school has the highest percentage of learning disabled kids in the county. Come to find out the state gives 64 dollars a day in aid for a normal kid but 134 in aid for learning disabled. Thes bastud's are perfectly willing to saddle a kid with a tag like that for the sake of a few dollars.


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