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To add your comments to this topic, click on one of the 'Reply' links below.

To Mike in tn
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Doc    Posted 11-20-2004 at 05:11:12       [Reply]  [No Email]
Sorry for the late reply but to answer your question, and this is only my opinion.

Gays exist. They are not going away so let's deal with it. Perhaps you do not think they should exist but they do. To not allow a patner that you love access to you at your death bed is just inhumane. To not allow your life patner to benefits such as medical allowed to any other couple is just not right. I to not understand that lifestyle but then I don't need to or want to I just need to except the fact that it exists and it doesn't harm me. Only in my mind if I let it.

Perhaps I find this lifestyle repugnant to me but it is always going to be here and will only grow as the population grows. It's just a fact of life. It's just a thing, so deal with it. You don't have to participate in any form so just let them be and treat them as the human beings that they are. They are not hurting you and yours. They just live differently.

Their lifestyle may not follow the Christian doctrine but this is America. The government of this country was NOT founded on Christianity as most people seem to advocate. Christianity was just the religion that brought us here in majority amounts. To escape persucution just like many on here administer to others who do not agree with them. Many people seem to forget that fact. Christianity is touted in our government motto's, ect. because our forefathers were Christians and believed that God and religious philosophy should lead us in our daily lives. They did not neccesarily mean that your God or my God or someone elses God is better. Just that God was God of all and Christianity was the God that they worshiped and tried to direct this society in a God fearing and moral manner.

I am getting off track here so I will try to get back on.

IMO, I don't think Gay's should need marriage per say to allow them to funtion as commited couples. Let them have basic rights as do all other couples legally married. They are here forever so let's learn to live with it and stop persucuting them for wanting to decide what to do with their loved ones remains or body after death or to give them health care under their partners insurance because they are not hetorosexual. You are not going to erradicate them nor are they going to dissapear. They have a right to be here and to live as they please as long as they do not infringe upon your rights. Unfortunately for some that is part of living in a free society. They only want it to be free for them and those who think like them.

Gays are not hurting you or me or our children. Let's grow up and deal with real problems in our society. Sometimes some people just need to get off their red neck high horse and realize that this is a country for all people of all persuations and you were just lucky or unlucky enough to be born here depending on your beliefs. We live in a hugely diverse society and need to except that and stop trying to change those that don't want to be changed. Just give them the same baic rights as you and I have to live a good life here.

I'm not trying to start a fight. This is just my opinion and I'd love to hear others Pro and Con.


Ron/PA    Posted 11-20-2004 at 06:14:18       [Reply]  [No Email]
Since you asked for opinions, here's mine and it's worth every penny you'll pay for it.
I have a problem, but it's not directly with (G WORD) it's with our government's handling of this situation. Why are they involved? What purpose will it serve?
My marriage was made by my wife and myself, we chose to do it in our church, before our god. Married by a minister of our choice. The fact that a state government approved it was of no concern to me, and 30 years later still has no bearing on my life. As far as my medical benefits, I feel that this has somehow become a psudo-right that we expect. When I enter into an agreement with an employer, my medical coverage is part of that negotiation. It's not a guaranteed right, nor is it mandated by the government, it is in fact a free market exhange of monies for services, just like any other insurance. While I don't ever want to be without it, I have been, and still don't feel that any company should be forced to cover me and mine, at the point of a political gun.
How (G WORD) got that way, or how they live is of no concern to me, those that I know I do not like or dislike based on their sekual
Should their chosen lifestyle, become an issue where they petition the government to act on their behalf, at my expense, I'll darned sure have an opinion, also an objection.
Many couples today, recieve their private and government benefits as individuals, separate from their partner or spouse. I see no reason to expect any more or less from the (G WORD) community.

Sorry for butchering    Posted 11-20-2004 at 06:15:38       [Reply]  [No Email]
This post so bad, but I hadda go back 3 times to find the offensive word, turns out it was sekual not gay!

Mike in tn    Posted 11-20-2004 at 05:46:56       [Reply]  [No Email]
Doc, Thanks for your reply and I am glad that you took my question as I meant it. I wanted to know what the term gay union means to other people. I also am not trying to start a fight, but will express my thoughts on it. What you said about the beliefs of our forefathers is 100% correct, and I agree with them 100%. I think that no person should be mistreated in this great Nation. I also believe that this life style in wrong and our Government has no business funding it in any way. In my opinion that is supporting it. It seems to me that this gay union term is just a definition that they hope will be better accepted to obtain government benifits.

Gerrit    Posted 11-20-2004 at 05:40:27       [Reply]  [No Email]
I agree with you, doc.

In the Netherlands, where I'm from, we have had the so called "registered partnership" for a number of years now.
In short it gives any two people who live together the right to register their partnership with the authorities, giving them the same rights as a married couple.
It is not only for gay couples but also for other couples.

Take for instance the case of a older man who needs care. His niece lives with him and takes care of him and the household. He want her to inherit his house. They can register their partnership and she can inherit from him like a wife would.

To me this is only fair.

Salmoneye    Posted 11-20-2004 at 07:13:16       [Reply]  [No Email]
"It is not only for gay couples but also for other couples."

Same here in Vermont...

When I was a kid, I had two 'Maiden Aunts' that lived together all their lives...The inevitable happened and one died...Unfortunately without a will, and she happened to be the one with her name on the deed...You should have seen the mess that the survivor went through trying to keep the house where she had lived for 50 years withe her own sister!

A simple 'civil union' would have taken care of the whole deal including the passing on of all assets...

Alias    Posted 11-20-2004 at 05:24:54       [Reply]  [No Email]
Doc, this is my take on the subject of Homosexuals. I don't like or dislike them. But, I feel a certain amount of pity for them. I'm content to let them live their lives with the same liberties as everyone else. You see, I believe that it's mother nature's way to weed out the weak. The only thing is, I don't agree that they were born that way. I think their life style was cultivated rather than inheirited. JMHO...gfp

Gerrit    Posted 11-20-2004 at 05:55:16       [Reply]  [No Email]
Soory Alias, but I think you're wrong there. There enough scientific prove that homosexuality isn't a cultivated lifestyle...
As far as "mother nature's way to weed out the weak" is concerned, I think that station is passed a long time ago..
How many of us have conditions which would have caused us to be "weeded out" if we would't have the medicines and medical treatment whcih are available to us nowadays?

Mke in tn    Posted 11-20-2004 at 05:54:08       [Reply]  [No Email]
Alias, You made some great points. I think that we have been cultivating it way too much. I don't think that this should be taught to our children that it is normal and should just be accepted that way.

Doc    Posted 11-20-2004 at 06:30:47       [Reply]  [No Email]
Ahhhhh..... that's just it. We are not cultivating it we are just finally admitting that it exists and always has thus bringing all those in hiding out in the open. They have always been here... you just didn't know it. Just because it isn't "normal" for you or me or the majority doesn't mean it is not normal for some people.

An Autistic child that sits down at a piano and plays like a concert pianist but cannot form an intelligible sentence is not considered "normal" by you or I, but who are we to decide what is normal in God's eye? Due we persecute that child or do we protect and let him..... no, help him live the best life that he can?

To force someone who is gay into a heterosexual relationship is not normal, righteous, nor humane. Just because we don't agree with it. Mostly it is because we do not understand it and most of us are afraid of such thing we don't understand and so we condemn and persecute that which is different. That is just literally ignorance on our part. They live, laugh, love, and contribute to society just as I do. If it is immoral I will let God decide but I will not persecute them unless they throw the first stone. I truly believe they just want to live their life in peace and happiness with basic inalienable rights which I believe the Constitution of this great nation guaranties them.

Mke in tn    Posted 11-20-2004 at 09:38:59       [Reply]  [No Email]
Doc, You said that (if it is immoral let God decide). Read the Good Book, he has already decided. I think that he expects Christians to take a stand against it. I agree that we should not judge the souls of people, But he said that we could judge a tree by it's fruits. I am not going to judge these people. I do not know if they are bound for Heaven or Hell, only God Knows. I do know what God thought of Sodom & Gomorrah, He made that very plain. Also I feel that this is one of the main reasons that the Terrorist are Soo much against us. If we support this as a Nation I can understand why they say that we are a Godless nation that should be destroyed. After all, that is the example that God gave us. Don't get me wrong, no one despises terrorist more than me. But as long as our Nation supports gays, they are always going to use it to convince their followers that we are a Godless Nation and use that to recruit more followers.

Alias    Posted 11-20-2004 at 08:59:40       [Reply]  [No Email]
Doc, I never imagined my opinion would create such uncalled for controversity. And, ordinarily, I wouldn't care to comment further. But, you made mention of one area that has prompted me to further respond.

You wrote: "Mostly it is because we do not understand it and most of us are afraid of such thing we don't understand and so we condemn and persecute that which is different. That is just literally ignorance on our part".

First off, I'm not afraid of, nor do I condemn, nor am I ignorant when it comes to homose#uals.

I was brought up in a loving atmosphere with both my parents, 3 brothers and 5 sisters. I was far more fortunate than many. Now, the topic of homo$exualality was never discussed within our household. However, it was as common as breathing for boys in the community to joke back and forth about some kid being girlish. And, from early on, it didn't fit into my life style to be anything less than a man. Therefore, I grew up with a strong determination to become a man and not someone other male's toy. Now please, if you can, tell me what is to be afraid of, or ignorant about such a choice.

Now, I can understand a lot of crazy things people do. But there is one area that I fail to accept. And, that is for a human being to take assault from the rear. To me, they are gluttons for punishment and the product of a perverted mind. As always, that's just my Honest Opinion.

Doc    Posted 11-20-2004 at 09:17:48       [Reply]  [No Email]
"Now, I can understand a lot of crazy things people do. But there is one area that I fail to accept"

We can not understand therefore we can not accept.

I rest my case.

I'm done with this subject. Time to move on.

Mke in tn    Posted 11-20-2004 at 09:52:18       [Reply]  [No Email]
I agree Doc, time to move on. After all everyone is like me, and has strong opinions on this and is not going to change anyone's opinion on it. I am just glad that you were able to express your opinions about it in a courteous manner. I hope that I have not offended you in any way. There is no need for disagreements to get into name calling and insults. People should sometimes just agree, to disagree. We should be thankfull that we live in a Great Nation where we can express our opinions.

Doc    Posted 11-20-2004 at 10:32:10       [Reply]  [No Email]
Same in return Mike. It was nice to have a good educational "argument" for a change on here with an intelligent adult opponent. I respect your opinions.

Thank you.

Doc    Posted 11-20-2004 at 05:48:20       [Reply]  [No Email]
As far as why? That's something that I really don't know. From what I've read and been told by gays that I have known, they have no choice in the matter. You may be right, I don't really know. Having said that however I do not believe that God is trying to weed out the weak in that way. Some of the most intelligent people on this planet are gay and their contributions to mankind may never be measured because of the persecution by others. That is why the universities are fighting to keep benefits that they offer gays in place despite the new laws for fear of brain drain when they gays are forced to move to states that allow benefits. I believe that there are still many thousands of gays in this society that are still in the closet and may never come out. Can't really say that I could blame them considering what they have to endure. Blacks are excepted now but not gays. Who are we to judge people. That is to be left to another. As long as we are not being harmed..... what gives us the right? Are they breaking the law of God? I'll leave that up to God to decide. Are they breaking any laws of man. Perhaps, but not all laws of man are good for humanity.

As far as subversive leftist doctrine induced by gay educators. I believe that it exists but I do not perceive it to be an eminent threat to our society. Those things tend to come out in the wash as demonstrated by the recent election. I am not paranoid. (are you talking about me now?)

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