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Country Discussion Topics
To add your comments to this topic, click on one of the 'Reply' links below.

Alaskan Drilling
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Doc    Posted 11-22-2004 at 02:25:05       [Reply]  [No Email]
I'm curious about the opinions of die hard country folk on drilling the Alaska Wilderness. Looks like it's gonna happen. What do you think about it?


RichZ    Posted 11-22-2004 at 19:29:37       [Reply]  [Send Email]
If we put half the effort and money into developing renewable resources for fuel, instead of depending on oil, which will eventually run out, we wouldn't even need to debate this. The internal combustion engine will run nicely on methanol with just a small amount of tweaking. And you can make methanol out of almost anything organic, including garbage.

We can work together to acheive more things than we ever can by arguing. We should be working together to develop renwable resources for fuel.


Why now? What's the hurry    Posted 11-22-2004 at 10:06:19       [Reply]  [No Email]
Why now? Seems to me that drilling in AK ought to be a last resort, and we have not reached there, yet. Oil is still relatively cheap, we pay much less for gas here than other industrialized nations. Why not use up all of the middle east oil, while we can and while it is still affordable.

Thank goodness no one has brought up drilling offshore of California in a while. AK is a remote iceland to most people.

Zenia


Texas    Posted 11-22-2004 at 10:35:50       [Reply]  [No Email]
re: California Drilling

It amazes me that Californians who do not want drilling in their "world" and have regulated themselves into higher fuel prices still feel they have the right to complain about the high cost of fuel in that state. Some one should sit them down and explain "you made that bed, now lay in it". Entitlement? I think not. Not at my expense.


Bob    Posted 11-22-2004 at 12:31:08       [Reply]  [No Email]
Why do people want the big gas guzzling pickups and SUV's with the biggest possible motor, and then fail to realize that the oil to power such extravagance HAS TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE?

(Yes, I'm guilty, too, I have a late model Yukon.)

When I was shopping for it, to replace our 1992 GMC Suburban, I wanted the economical 5.3 liter engine, with "highway gears".

All the dealers wanted to push the bigger 6.0 liter engine, and "towing gears", probably at the expense of 2-3 highway MPG. I told them our 1992 had a receiver hitch, and in the 8 years or so we had owned it, never had anything hitched to it, so, for my needs, the bigger engine, and towing gears were not necessary. As we plan to keep the Yuke for a number of years, even a couple miles per gallon less would add up to a significant amount over the years.

We finally found low mileage "program car" with 30,000 miles with the 5.3 and "highway gears". It seems to get respectable mileage, and has more than enough power for our needs.

I really have to wonder, in this age of environmental awareness, and high priced oil, (including the even higher price of the blood of our families, friends, and neighbors) how someone who has no need to tow anything can justify driving around in a "tonner dually" with a V-10 engine, not towing anything, "just because they can". Not to mention "Hummers".

And, yes, I am a "gearhead", having built many engines and project vehicles over the years. The fact is, with today's computerized engines you can have adequate power and performance and still get good mileage.


Zenia    Posted 11-22-2004 at 12:59:35       [Reply]  [No Email]
I am willing to bet your Yukon has seen a few dirt roads? Weather?
What gets me is the $60K Hummers and sparkling SUV's that are used for nothing other than commute vehicles for office workers. And soccer moms. Never see a gravel or dirt road, ever. Most of them around here never see snow, either, unless they take a trip up to Lake Tahoe.


Dieselrider    Posted 11-22-2004 at 04:53:06       [Reply]  [No Email]
Anyone who truely feels we shouldn't be up there drilling for oil should not use any oil products themselves and show the rest of us how it's to really be done. They should give up motorized vehicles, electricity, and all other activities which require any fossil fuels to produce. Show the rest of us fossil fuel dependent types how it's done.

I'm sorry but, I'm not willing to become Amish for the sake of the spotted owl and the buffalo.


Ron/PA    Posted 11-22-2004 at 06:02:08       [Reply]  [No Email]
Dieselrider, meet me in Mifflintown, at stop 35 and we'll cruise for Amish girls and eat buffalo burgers. Yer on your own for the owls, I'm still looking for a bazooka with shot loads to get a couple of hawks.
Ron


Dieselrider    Posted 11-22-2004 at 06:49:49       [Reply]  [No Email]
Hey Ron, that sounds like a winning combination right there. I have been getting down in your neck of the woods as of late. I'll have to look you up some time.

I hear those Amish girls don't shave, might be warm cuddlin on a cold night. I hope Marci doesn't see this.


Ron/PA    Posted 11-22-2004 at 09:12:19       [Reply]  [No Email]
Guess you shouldn't have posted that,, now lemme see, where's that phone No. for Marc???
LOL Ron


toolman    Posted 11-22-2004 at 05:04:57       [Reply]  [No Email]
WHAT i need to become amish too, wow now theres a concept,think they,ll alow me in lol.


NOOO!!!!!    Posted 11-22-2004 at 06:05:23       [Reply]  [No Email]
Cause they don't like pink window shades! LOL
Ron


Dave 2N    Posted 11-22-2004 at 03:19:56       [Reply]  [Send Email]
With plenty of untapped energy of our own, maybe it's time to "put the Caribou on the back burner for ahwile."


Salmoneye    Posted 11-22-2004 at 03:41:18       [Reply]  [No Email]
The part that the 'environmentalists' refuse to accept is that everywhere there is drilling (and pipelines) in the north, Caribou (and other wildlife) coexist just fine...

Here is a map of the 'before and after' if this proposed drilling is to go through...

We are talking a very small part of the whole of ANWR here...



Bob    Posted 11-22-2004 at 03:15:00       [Reply]  [No Email]
We fight over mideast oil and our PEOPLE are killed.

We drill in the artic and risk killing ANIMALS.

While neither situation is desirable, which is "the lesser of 2 evils"?


to Bob    Posted 11-22-2004 at 03:22:42       [Reply]  [No Email]
Which poses another question...... which would the earth be better off without?

Doc


Oh for petes sake...    Posted 11-22-2004 at 03:42:38       [Reply]  [No Email]
You are now asking if the Earth should go back to the 'garden' it was before man?

Salmoneye, Who Just Can't Believe The Liberal Guilt Trip

WAAHHH...Some people in the world hate us...

WAAHHH...Maybe the Earth would be better off without Man...

WAAHHH...



Doc    Posted 11-22-2004 at 03:57:35       [Reply]  [No Email]
That's not what I'm asking at all. What I'm asking is it better to kill off human beings in another country as opposed to disturbing the natural wildlife on the Northern slope?

As far as the drilling just being a little part of the region..... you really have to be naive' if you believe that one. This is history repeating itself. The first Alaska drilling was the first step. Now this is step two. I suppose you think when this is developed that it's the end of it? I know your smarter than that.


Salmoneye    Posted 11-22-2004 at 04:58:12       [Reply]  [No Email]
Which poses another question...... which would the earth be better off without?

This was in response to Bob:

"We fight over mideast oil and our PEOPLE are killed.

We drill in the artic and risk killing ANIMALS.

While neither situation is desirable, which is "the lesser of 2 evils"?

The question you pose, is would the world be better off without Man or Animals...You are backpeddaling on that now?...

Obviously it can't be 'history repeating itself', as there has never been any drilling in ANWR...WHat you are refering to is drilling on private and public lands and waters...NOT a 'National Refuge'...That is what seems to be the issue...

You seem to want to make the consumption of oil in this country someone elses environmental problem, ie. 3rd-world countries...Not very progressive of you to make others carry the brunt of the burden for you, is it?

;-)



Doc    Posted 11-22-2004 at 06:35:40       [Reply]  [No Email]
You can spin or try to second guess me all you want. I'm asking questions in order to learn. I always play Devil's advocate in just about any argument if I need to. I'm not back peddling on anything. I don't remember the names of the places we drilled in Alaska and I'm not going to bother doing the research right now. I'm glad you are so knowlegable on the subjecr but please don't think that because I post questions that seem to erk' you (hope that's a word) that I neccessarily believe in what I'm saying... I may or may not. I'm simply trying to provoke intellegent conversation and argument for the sake of educating myself and perhaps others, not to produce calling or badgering.

Quote: Do not follow the ideas of others, but learn to listen to the voice within yourself. Your body and mind will become clear and you will realize the unity of all things.
Author: Dogen


You must have missed this    Posted 11-22-2004 at 07:08:32       [Reply]  [No Email]
Here is the map I posted elsewhere in this thread...It shows all anyone needs to know about where the old wells are and where the proposed drilling would take place...

It is in fact a VERY small section of ANWR...You seem to think that the entire 1.5 million acres is suitable for drilling, which of course it isn't...Oil companies will only drill where there is oil...

And to think that this 'irks' me is laughable...You are not the only one that can play the Devils' Advocate ;-)



And a link...    Posted 11-22-2004 at 07:14:37       [Reply]  [No Email]
http://www.anwr.org/

Salmoneye


toolman    Posted 11-22-2004 at 04:09:57       [Reply]  [No Email]
well i would go with knocking off some of them folks over in the middle east and spare the animals if it were up to me but then im a animal lover anyway.as long as big industry is making the money it is off us they will rely on what they are making the money,there are things that can be done now to change our reliance on fossil fuels, but the cost is always high , wonder why, remember we had tbi long ago but stayed with carbs because they were less fuel efficent,alway hearing of someone who has invented a device to improve milage you get out of a gallon of gas but most are hoaxes, but i would think some are worth looking aat but of course if they are you won,t see them until the big oils companies find a way to make it worth their while.


Bob    Posted 11-22-2004 at 03:17:05       [Reply]  [No Email]
P.S...

The sooner viable "alternative fuels" are developed, and made practical, the destruction and killing in the name of oil can stop!


Les    Posted 11-22-2004 at 02:55:24       [Reply]  [No Email]
Do it. The benefits far outweigh the risks.
Besides, now that the election is over, there will be underemployed protesters who need a cause.
I came through Woodstock, VT yesterday afternoon and there were some anti-war protesters set up there on the common. (For those who don't know, Woodstock, VT is kind of a magnet for that kind of people.) They looked kind of pitiful there in the drizzling rain. I almost felt sorry for them.

Nah.


Doc    Posted 11-22-2004 at 03:01:51       [Reply]  [No Email]
I'm curious as to how you equate a question about drilling in the Alaskan wilderness with anti-war protesters in Woodstock, VT.?


Les    Posted 11-22-2004 at 06:00:51       [Reply]  [No Email]
I'm looking out for the long-term employment possibilities for those people. I'm sorry if the point was missed by the good doctor.


toolman    Posted 11-22-2004 at 03:28:33       [Reply]  [No Email]
doc thats one of his problems anytime anything is asked he has to run his mouth about something like he does, as for the drilling,it will happen but the amount of oil won,t solve the problem as bob says it is time to look at alternate fuels and maybe conservation, there just isn,t enough proven reserves left to satisfy our consumption for a whole lot longer if we don,t do something.


Doc    Posted 11-22-2004 at 03:47:57       [Reply]  [No Email]
Just a question - So why don't we demand that little pristeen part of the world be left alone as a testiment that we must live with what we have become, which is a greedy, self serving society. Can't we leave anything the way God intended it to be? Do we have to ruin every last bit of his wonderful creation for our own benefit? Can't we leave just that small bit of our country that we have control over as a monument to creation?

Flip side - Or should we exploit that which we have control over. The oil will keep us going for another 50 years or so. Let's go ahead and get it to buy us some time. Surely we will have alternative energy by then. The animals won't be harmed that much. They adapt to human intervention don't they? Besides, if my grandchildren decide to go there to see that beautiful country they will need roads and infrastructure to get there won't they and you get used to seeing a huge pipeline across the land..... kinda like getting used to living next to a rail road track...... right?

Just trying to look a both sides.


Salmoneye    Posted 11-22-2004 at 03:46:54       [Reply]  [No Email]
I guess it is time for you to broaden your horizons as to the current thinking about what oil is and where it comes from...

http://www.oralchelation.com/faq/wsj4.htm


Doc    Posted 11-22-2004 at 04:10:18       [Reply]  [No Email]
That is an interesting article and admittedly news to me. It is also in it's infancy and may prove to be nothing... or something. Hope for mankind it's something.


toolman    Posted 11-22-2004 at 03:56:51       [Reply]  [No Email]
hmmm since thats the case then ,i guess we can assume that since we now have all this extra oil we will be soon seeing lower prices at the pumps , no more relying on the mideast ahh poor arabs. could only wish and hope huh. we have huge proven oil reserves of the north coast of b.c. but a mortium was placed on drilling way back when they first started ofshore drilling as it being unsafe for our coast, since then the techonolgy has greatly improved im sure however the mortium remains to this day, course the revenuse from this oil would certainly help with schools hospitaals etc. but hey smarter folks than me make the decisions i guess.


naz    Posted 11-22-2004 at 03:38:40       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Hi Toolman,up early or to bed late,not eaten crackers in bed are ya.haha.Have a great day all!!!


toolman    Posted 11-22-2004 at 04:02:25       [Reply]  [No Email]
hey naz long time no see, i was watching american chopper, it has been on most of the night i guess, id fall asleep in the chair wake up and watch some more before i fell asleep again, seen a part of every show not sure how much though haha.see you got your little first snowfall huh, wife assured me that no time soon would we be moving back home lol.


naz    Posted 11-22-2004 at 04:09:01       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Yep got a good blast of winter,mostly rain here but near a foot of snow landed about ten miles from here.I am as ready for it as i'm going to be?Sounds like you got your share as well.


toolman    Posted 11-22-2004 at 04:13:02       [Reply]  [No Email]
no nothing really yet had a dusting a couple of times but thats all so far, i was actually cutting some of the lawn last week, sure hope it stays like this for the next few months, they are calling for a 60% warmer and drier winter from dec. thru feb. all up the west coast , i could live with that.im sure we,ll get a reality check soon here though.


naz    Posted 11-22-2004 at 04:19:08       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Good luck on that 60 percent warmer?I like to be optimistic too??No snow for Nova Scotia this winter and am gonna start planting in March!haha,talk to ya later.Have a good one.


toolman    Posted 11-22-2004 at 04:26:52       [Reply]  [No Email]
yup you too naz im gonna do something productive sine im up so early, like breakfast lol. you waiting till march to plant huh i was thinking about the first of the year MAYBE haha.


Salmoneye    Posted 11-22-2004 at 02:31:55       [Reply]  [No Email]
About time...

Though I fear it is too little, too late...



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