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Country Discussion Topics
To add your comments to this topic, click on one of the 'Reply' links below.

I heard on PBS...
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Melanie    Posted 11-24-2004 at 15:48:26       [Reply]  [No Email]
... where Native Americans go to Plymouth Rock on Thanksgiving Day every year and have a day of mourning. Because, you know, Thanksgiving kind of symbolizes the beginning of the end of their way of life. Kind of took the heart out of me for a week or two there... but I still feel like being made to feel guilty for something people did five to ten generations ago is ridiculous.
Opinions?


Dug    Posted 11-24-2004 at 16:56:42       [Reply]  [No Email]
Sounds like a PBS stunt.

We all live in the greatest nation on the face of the earth. Opportunities are endless for those daring and industrous enough to take advantage of what the US has to offer.

No sympathy from this country boy!

God Bless the USA,

Dug


Burrhead    Posted 11-24-2004 at 17:10:31       [Reply]  [No Email]
Dug this is a question and not a barb.

What does Indian history have to do with yer answer?? The fact that our gubermint screwed the Indians is history not myth.


Dug    Posted 11-24-2004 at 22:12:44       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Burrhead,

It is typical of the self-defeating attitude prevalent in impoverished groups and perpectuated by the crusading do-gooders throughout the media. What good does it do to go to a rock and mourn 200+ years after the fact? Nobody could debate the travesty imposed upon the indian nations in North America, but look at the opportunities available to them today! Any group that dwells in the past and seeks sorrow and pity for actions dealt on their ancestors are looking for hand-outs, not opportunities. My sympathetic tendancies run very shallow for those that won't do for themselves.

Respectfully,

Dug


Burrhead    Posted 11-25-2004 at 10:28:55       [Reply]  [No Email]
I'm quarter Cherokee myself and I live next to 2 reservations but have never ever seen Indians on the bum like you describe Dug.

I don't understand your 200 year rock comment either. I certainly have no problems with an Indian taking a pilgrimage himself.

From what you have said it seems to me that your're trying to justify your biggotry more than explain the problems with an Indian custom.


mark/mn    Posted 11-24-2004 at 18:13:19       [Reply]  [No Email]
But didn't the last occupying tribe roust the
tribe before them who did the same to the
tribe before them and so on. I dare say they
probably weren't none to civil with the folks
they whipped.
They became a conquered people because
they fought the battle not the war, as a
conquered nation ya get what ya get.


Burrhead    Posted 11-24-2004 at 19:19:25       [Reply]  [No Email]
That's right they ruled about like Europeans. They used force to occupy but I never heard of an Apache invasion into London or Madrid.

The one thing about Indians was that they did not invade or recapture lands simply for the bragging rights. It was always for food and/or shelters.

I'm not a AIM advocate and don't care one way or the other except that I hate it happened like it did. The reason most Indian tribes hated the whiteman so much was that the white eyes came here enslaving the people and raping the land. Same as today. Then to add insult to injury the gubermint rounds them up like stray dogs and pens them.

I would'nt call the Indian treatment by the American government anything as honorable as one nation defeating another nation.

The same hysteria holds true on the great northern war of aggression. Slavery was a side issue. Money and power were the real cause of war.


mark/mn    Posted 11-24-2004 at 19:56:19       [Reply]  [No Email]
There's no doubt slavery was just a side
note in the civil war. If I remember correctly it
was an issue used more for bolstering
lagging support from certain parties in the
north.

Back to the topic at hand. Look back in
history at how one nation treated another once
they conquered them, people were enslaved,
killed basically treated as other than human.
That's just the way it was then.

As far as recent history I'll admit they were
treated in less than an honorable way but I
believe they've been compensated enough.
Being one who lives in an area near several
reservations, indians have become their own
worst enemy in so far as credibility
bemoaning their woes of prejudice and
wrongful assumptions. i.e. They break the law
then hide on the res. without fear of having to
face the music, the tribal councils were
pushing for a DWI free zone for indians on hwy
59, they themselves practice blatant prejudice
against non indians with no fear of being
called on the carpet.

I think enough is enough. All reservations
should be done away with and these folks
need to start living hand to mouth like the rest
of us.


Doc    Posted 11-24-2004 at 17:39:46       [Reply]  [No Email]
I agree Burr. I don't understand it. PBS just reports the news. More news than you get anywhere else. Why is that a stunt? Now Rush is a stunt.


Burrhead    Posted 11-24-2004 at 17:47:36       [Reply]  [No Email]
I gotta agree Rush is a stunt but he has done them stunts and made himself a millionaire by feeding the ego of uninformed folks.

I always liked history no matter how it turns out.

I don't know if I'll ever fit in as a ratwinger. These folks are pretty short on fact and long on ignorance.

Oh well all I need is the one term to get my retirement and insurance paid for life.


Fern(Mi)    Posted 11-24-2004 at 16:12:18       [Reply]  [No Email]
"I'm thankful I got a working toilet and trash pickup; so's, I don't have to be moving the shut filled teepee all the time." A quote from a Potawatomi Indian friend of mine.
Fernan


KatG    Posted 11-24-2004 at 16:29:49       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Well I got the working toilet...waiting to get busted by the trash pratrol anyday..lol...I am just Thankful....KAtG


Fawteen    Posted 11-24-2004 at 16:08:39       [Reply]  [No Email]
I'm probably not permitted to have an opinion, being an accused cross-dresser and all, but I personally find ALL over-the-top egg-head mandated political correctness to be a steaming load of male bovine excrement, and decline to worry about it.

But then, I'm a ratwinger, and genetically unable to give a rat's rear about other people's feelings.


Melanie    Posted 11-24-2004 at 16:15:55       [Reply]  [No Email]
Fawteen, you rat-wingin', cross-dressin', opinion-withholdin' meanie, you!!!! LOL!!!!!!
Actually, I have to agree, and I also feel like this is a backlash from all the touchy-feely "Culture Preservation" crap that was handed to the Native Americans on a platter. If they had been asked or allowed to join in to the current culture, instead of being fenced off and called "special" on reservations, in a supposed effort to "preserve" their culture, they wouldn't be set apart now, toiling in obscurity and poverty.
Another thing is, I don't particularly feel all that guilty, Zenia... I just think it's lame to try and make me feel guilty about it, is all.
Besides, both my great-grandmothers, maternal and paternal, were full-blooded Cherokee, so that would be quite the identity crisis, wouldn't it? ;)


Fawteen    Posted 11-24-2004 at 16:23:16       [Reply]  [No Email]
Howdy, Mel!

Right or wrong, it's a fact of life that civilizations and cultures change. You either change with it, or you get run over.

That, of course, in no way excuses the genocidal approach that was used to make way for The White Man in this country.


Zenia    Posted 11-24-2004 at 16:06:50       [Reply]  [No Email]
What makes you feel guilty? I have not ever felt that guilt. Perhaps because my ancesters were mostly refrugees from the potato famine. They were not exactly welcomed with open arms, and even our true family names were changed, on both sides. I learned that my other great grandfather was a Portuguese pirate who anglicized his name to sound English. I thought it was romantic until I paused to think about what Portuguese pilots did in the early 1800's. He might have been a slave trader. Don't know, the history is lost. However, I have not ever felt guilty.

The way I see it, history is filled with tragedy. What happened to the Native Americans was about as bad as what happened to Australia's aboriginals. Ever see the movie, Rabbit Proof Fence? I highly recommend it. Anyway, I feel very sad for the current state of affairs for many Native American peoples. OTOH, I do not romanticize the way of life lost. People are people are people, and human nature has common threads the world over. Like someone said Chief Seattle said, "Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect." Actually it was probably a screen writer who said it.

He also supposedly said: "Nations follow nations" and "this too shall pass" meaning that one day even the USA will fall.


KatG    Posted 11-24-2004 at 16:36:34       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I doubt the pilgrims would have let my family hitch a ride over with them...From what I understand part of the family imagrated in 1905 from Sicily...probably was deported..lol...And like your Zenia mine was leaving the potatoe famine...so guess we didn't boot the Indians...but I had a Cherokee step-grandpa that raised me and never heard him say anything against "white eyes"...KAtG


Melanie    Posted 11-24-2004 at 17:06:49       [Reply]  [No Email]
I guess nine out of ten times, things like this pilgrimage of mourning to Plymouth are perpetrated by "squeaky wheel" types, malcontents who wouldn't be happy if they were nominated Best Racial/Demographic/Gender Group in the Whole Entire Universe. I know that this was a painful period in our history, but over the millennia all racial/cultural groups have been trod upon or oppressed. I think it's time for all that to be let go, and for us all to look toward the future instead of dwelling on the painful dead past. But that's just me...




KatG    Posted 11-24-2004 at 17:13:39       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I am with you Melanie..But I would like 40 acres and a mule..lol..KAtG


Burrhead    Posted 11-24-2004 at 15:54:26       [Reply]  [No Email]
Yeah I saw that and I saw the one where blacks are sueing for reparations from slavery.

If the courts give the blacks reparations and set the pace for Injin suits I wonder what the Seminole will do with all them ceegar suckers from Noo Juhzy when they clean house.

I don't believe in sympathy but I do think we should safe guard our "liberty and justice for all" clause to see things don't happen that way again.


Ron/PA    Posted 11-24-2004 at 15:52:34       [Reply]  [No Email]
I guess I wouldn't be surprised to hear that from PBS, Sure we ought to feel bad.
Here's my plan, I'm going to sit down to a great dinner tomorrow, and give thanks that history worked out the way it did.
Otherwise I'd be tending to business at my casino,and selling cheap smokes, and some Indian would be driving truck?
No Guilt here,
Ron


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