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Country Discussion Topics
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Not to rain...
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Cindi    Posted 11-25-2004 at 05:22:50       [Reply]  [No Email]
...on the Thanksgiving Day Parade (even though it is raining here and maybe that's what put me in this mood) but there is a lot more to Thanksgiving than we have traditionally been taught.

The Pilgrims were not just innocent refugees from
religious persecution. They thought they were the 'chosen' ones and were bigots and tried to change everyone they came in contact with to make them see their ways. They would stoop to torture and deceit to make their point and believed that they were fighting a holy war against satan and would use any means to justify the end. Sound familiar? In fact, one of the elders gave thanks to God for an outbreak of small pox that killed many of the Wampanoag indians.

Which may be because the Wampanoag Indians were not friendly savages. And they also were not invited to the feast by the pilgrims out of the goodness of the pilgrims hearts. The only reason the indians were present at the feast is because not only did they bring most of the food, but they outnumbered the pilgrims and the pilgrims decided that they would be nice to them until more white people arrived and the numbers shifted.
The primary focus of this get together was to talk the indians into allowing the pilgrims to "own" Plymouth Rock.

Twenty or so years later, there were more whites than indians and the indian and white children of the famous feast were trying to kill each other in a battle called King Philip's War.

Any indian prisoners that were caught were sold into slavery, which turned out to be such a profitable thing that the puritans began going to the ivory coast of Africa and capturing black slaves to sell in the south, thus beginning the slave trade.

Not too pretty, huh? People back then were just as mean as they are now, but in my mind Thanksgiving will always be about turkey and family and getting together. It just didn't start out that way (wink)


Les    Posted 11-25-2004 at 05:29:57       [Reply]  [No Email]
Cindi, smallpox played an important part in our early history. It plays a part in the books that I was just recommending to Salmoneye.


Cindi    Posted 11-25-2004 at 06:27:18       [Reply]  [No Email]
I know that it did, but I need to read more about it also. In my adult years, I always had trouble seeing these puritans and the indians who they thought to be heathens, sitting down together to eat a peaceful meal. Indian men with bare legs and bare chests, Indian women with bare breasts and legs, amongst women who believed that showing an ankle was a horrible sin!

I knew there was more to it than we'd been taught. In the early to mid twentieth century, our education was shaded by propriety. Instead of telling us the truth they opted many times for a prettier picture, leaving out details that may give us nightmares (smile)


I have a book for you    Posted 11-25-2004 at 10:15:13       [Reply]  [No Email]
A fascinating book, called "Plagues and Peoples" ... I take that back, I went to look for it to get the author's name, and I no longer seem to have the book. Must have lent it. Why is it no one ever returns books?!

Anyway, it's a small paperback on the origins of human diseases and is very interesting. Talks about how disease evolved along with humans, as humans moved from tropics to savana life etc., and the earliest germ warfare. Ghengis Kahn's army catapulted bodies of people who died from bubonic plague over castle walls, to infect the castle dwellers. White settlers gave native peoples blankets from smallpox hospices, intending to spread the disease among the native population. Interesting, some native people were convinced that God was on the white man's side, because mostly only the indians died - they had no immunity.

ITA, the pilgrims were not nice people. Columbus was not a nice guy, either.

Zenia


Zenia..    Posted 11-25-2004 at 15:42:11       [Reply]  [No Email]
This book?


Keep in mind,    Posted 11-25-2004 at 08:51:22       [Reply]  [No Email]
that a lot of the Puritan thought lives on in the fundamental churches. The history early Christian church was as bloody as that of Islam, which is still a "new" religion. And they want ALL the world the believe just EXACTLY as they do. And in the early history of both they were quite willing to use "the sword" to advance their religion.

AND the TRUTH is, that it is ALL about who gets to propagate and populate the planet and who does not!

Sad, isn't it?, that more often religion is MORE about man's relationship with other men (ie the control of them, the priestly class dictating the conduct of the "people") than it is about man and his relationship to God, the creator, a higher "authority".


Tom    Posted 07-02-2006 at 02:49:07       [Reply]  [No Email]
The early Christian church, at least for the first 300 years after the death of Christ, never took up any weapons of any kind. This is a historical fact.


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