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Country Discussion Topics
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Smokeless in muzzleloader
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wakefield    Posted 12-20-2004 at 03:42:58       [Reply]  [No Email]
anyone shoot smokeless powder in there muzzleloader???/


RayP(MI)    Posted 12-20-2004 at 13:28:19       [Reply]  [No Email]
Find your owner's manual or contact the manufacturer of your muzzleloader, and get the instructions from them and follw them EXACTLY! Use the charges they recommend - MO MORE! Use the powders they recommend, - NOTHING ELSE! With the exception of a few muzzle loaders that are designed for smokeless, (AND THESE WILL SPECIFICALLY SAY SO IN THE INSTRUCTIONS,) it is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS to use smokeless in a gun designed for black powder or substitutes like Pyrodex. There are great differences in the burning characteristics and pressures created by smokeless powders. You risk ruptured barrels, blown out breeches, damaged ignition systems (nipples, breech plugs, hammers, etc.,).

Get the message? NO, NO, and NO!!!!!

We don't want to read about your "accident" in the papers,


Uh...    Posted 12-20-2004 at 05:15:20       [Reply]  [No Email]
I hope this doesn't sound harsh, or directed at anyone in particular, but putting anything other than 'black' powder or the equivalent in a muzzleloader borders on the insane...

From the Savage 10ML page:

"WARNING DO NOT USE ANY SMOKELESS POWDER IN ANY MUZZLELOADER OTHER THAN THE SAVAGE MODEL 10-I OR MODEL 10-II."

You need more?

From Ol' Buffalo Muzzleloading Guide (basically the bible of Muzzleloading):

"Modern ammunition uses smokeless powder to propel the bullet down the barrel. It burns with much greater energy and pressure than blackpowder. Therefore, never use smokeless powder in a firearm designed for blackpowder."

http://www.three-peaks.net/muzzle.htm

From Remington:

SMOKELESS POWDER WARNING

"All muzzleloader hunters and shooters need to be continually aware of the extra and unique safety precautions associated with the use of muzzle loading firearms. Almost all of the muzzleloaders in existence today are "Black Powder Only Muzzleloaders," meaning that the only safe propellants for use in these guns are black powder or an approved black powder substitute, such as Pyrodex. The same warning that has been in effect for the last 100 years remains just as valid today: USING ANY QUANTITY OF MODERN SMOKELESS POWDER IN MUZZLELOADING GUNS CAN RESULT IN SEVERE INJURY OR DEATH TO BOTH THE SHOOTER AND/OR BYSTANDERS.

NEVER USE MODERN SMOKELESS POWDER IN A MUZZLE LOADING FIREARM."

If you think you are smarter than the rest of the people that know this technology and have been using it safely for hundreds of years, by all means have at it...They are your fingers, eyes, and head...Do us all a favour though, and don't take anyone else with you...

Salmoneye, Who Can Not Stress Enough That This Is NOT A Good Idea

Some of us have seen guns explode for various reasons...

It aint pretty...

Off my soapbox and I hope no one is offended...Just trying to save someone (or their loved ones) some grief...



Hawk    Posted 12-20-2004 at 05:32:19       [Reply]  [No Email]

good enough for me! thanks Salmoneye! look for me, i`ll be the one standing in the cloud of smoke!


I love...    Posted 12-20-2004 at 05:35:26       [Reply]  [No Email]
The smell of rotten eggs in the morning...

:-)

Salmoneye,

(for those that don't know, black powder has sulphur in it and when ignited has a hint of 'rotten egg' to it)



Hawk    Posted 12-20-2004 at 05:40:26       [Reply]  [No Email]

yep, went up on the mountain yesterday morning and fired mine, good stinky fun!


Bkeepr    Posted 12-20-2004 at 05:13:47       [Reply]  [No Email]
Don't!'

Unless a weapon is designed for the higher pressures and pressure spikes that you get with smokeless, it is flirting with death or dismemberment to use it.

You can't just guess or even calculate what a safe load might be, there's simply too many variables to do that. Please trust me and don't get hurt on this: my degree is in "weapons systems engineering" and I spent half a career as an artilleryman, and I s'pose I'm a small arms gun nut, too.

I'd hate to see one of us loose an eye or die over this...simply isn't worth it!

Tom A


LOL    Posted 12-20-2004 at 05:21:28       [Reply]  [No Email]
Great minds, and all that...

I was copying and pasting while you got to the heart of the matter...

Thanks, and I agree...

Salmoneye,



your references    Posted 12-20-2004 at 06:18:29       [Reply]  [No Email]
were much more authoritative than mine! What's important is making the point so nobody gets hurt.

Imagine it is worse there, but boy was it cold here this morning going out to feed and water the critters!

Tom A


Salmoneye    Posted 12-20-2004 at 06:38:25       [Reply]  [No Email]
Cold is cold where-ever...

Anything below 10 above can kill you quick...

I've said it before here...

If Mother Nature doesn't try and kill you a couple times a year, you aint living in the right place...

LOL



deadcarp    Posted 12-20-2004 at 04:18:59       [Reply]  [No Email]
smokeless is so much more potent and since it's progressive-burning, tremendous pressures can build up. but it's cleaner & non-corrosive.


Hawk    Posted 12-20-2004 at 04:26:08       [Reply]  [No Email]
ok fellers, educate me! i understand the cleaner firing [no smoke], if its more potent then do you use less powder per shot? i have a .45 cal kentucky rifle that i`m shooting 50 grains of black powder, so would i have to re think the amount of powder?


deadcarp    Posted 12-20-2004 at 04:48:19       [Reply]  [No Email]
there's a great range between powders - some pistol powders are purposely compact to fit them in a smaller chamber. for example 5 grains of some is near maximum load for a 44 magnum, whereas a 45-70 used 70 grains of black powder. then you should consider how full the chamber is - if it's too empty, the smokeless might spead along one side and allow the primer to flash over the powder, then since more of it lights at once, it builds up more breech pressure. many good guns have been damaged/destroyed with the wrong charge.


Hawk    Posted 12-20-2004 at 04:01:44       [Reply]  [No Email]

no i have never tried it before. i just built my 1st rifle in september and that was the first time i had ever fired a blackpowder weapon and the smoke is half the fun. does it fire cleaner? how much for a pound of it?


TB    Posted 12-20-2004 at 04:45:38       [Reply]  [No Email]
I personally don't think I would try it. One, can the barrel stand up to the higher rate of burn. Two, you would have to figger out the black powder equilivent, if you shoot 70 grains FFF BP what would be the equilivent of the particular smokeless. Three, Flintlock with a removable breech plug. will the threeds put up with the higher pressure. The smoke is half the fun, as said before


wakefield    Posted 12-20-2004 at 04:08:32       [Reply]  [No Email]
yes mine shoots 209 primers and with smokeless ,you wouldn't have to clean the durned thing....

savage makes one safe with smokeless and it shoots 38grains of weighted powder.


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