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Country Discussion Topics
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4th of July and Pledge of Allegiance
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Kraig WY    Posted 06-26-2002 at 21:26:14       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Please Join those of us who support the Pledge of Allegiance, w/ One Nation UNDER GOD at by reciting the Pledge at High Noon on July 4th in difiance to the 9th Cir. Court.


   Posted at       [Reply]  [No Email]


APRIL    Posted 06-27-2002 at 15:36:21       [Reply]  [No Email]
All these athiests are complaining about using the phrase "Under God"....however, it states in our currency "In God We Trust" and they don't have any problems using that do they?


screaminghollow    Posted 06-27-2002 at 19:04:02       [Reply]  [Send Email]
actually, they have sued over it and lost. until yesterday. I understand the next area they will work on is doing away with federal religious holidays like Christmas. And no work sundays. Just think. We finally arrived at the 5 day work week for most and they want us to start working sundays.


Tom A    Posted 06-27-2002 at 11:59:24       [Reply]  [Send Email]
The Founding Fathers were concerned about "the tyranny of the majority."

It seems to me that today we should be more concerned with "the tyranny of the minority," because it appears to always be the minority view that is forced down everyone else's throats.

We're all "Under God" whether everyone likes it, or believes, or not.

Tom A


Redneck    Posted 06-27-2002 at 16:16:41       [Reply]  [No Email]
I'm scared of majority rule on anything.The minority is a used to be.They are taking over like pouring oil on a pond.When I say them I mean the gut chewing worms in our government amoung a bunch of others..There ought to be a open season with wet pine tops.


Salmoneye    Posted 06-27-2002 at 11:08:05       [Reply]  [Send Email]
The Pledge Of Allegience has been changed twice since it was written.

Good or bad...'Under God' was not part of it till 1954...


Danny in CO    Posted 06-27-2002 at 08:04:05       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Nowhere in the Constitution are the word "separation of church and state" used. These words were in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson several years after the Constitution. The concern was that he wanted to keep Government out of religion, not keep religion out of Government. I believe that is a big distinction! Unfortunately, a lot of these wacky judges don't see that distinction.

Danny


Loral R. Johnson (Delaware)    Posted 06-27-2002 at 07:47:29       [Reply]  [No Email]
I'm hoping those of us with web pages will put "Under God" on the sites to show we are against this outrageous court decisision. Also bumper stickers.

It saddens me to think that one atheist in California can change something that millions hold near & dear.

I said to my wife shortly after 9-11-01; "I wonder how long it will take for the country to return to the lack of patriotism and revererance?"

I guess it took about this long......


Dennis in Ma    Posted 06-27-2002 at 06:51:10       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Let's all remember to call it was it is - Independence Day !!! Too many people just think the name of the holiday is the "4th of July" ! We don't call Christmas the "25th of December", and we should remember that we are celebrating our independence from tyranny by declaring our independence - hence Independence Day. We as Americans lose much when we forget what things we really are commemorating. let's start a campaign to get the "Independence" back in the 4th !!!

Happy Independence Day to all.


walt    Posted 06-27-2002 at 04:17:01       [Reply]  [No Email]
I guess what irritates me about this is the person who brought the issue. An atheist, who's daughter attends one of the schools. But the school policy is that she does not have to participate, and she can leave the classroom when the pledge is being done. He is entitled to his beliefs, but dont force your beliefs on me, whether you believe in God or not.


DIZ    Posted 06-27-2002 at 20:20:36       [Reply]  [No Email]
100% with you Walt. I think that if you are that upset over "under God" then you really have too much time on your hands. And "never been in a foxhole" but that's my opinion, do I have to sue someone now that I have an opinion?


The Rebel    Posted 06-27-2002 at 00:46:41       [Reply]  [No Email]
What I heard on the radio today had to do with a high appellate court judge prohibiting the public schools from requiring the students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance because the phrase "Under God" violated the doctrine of separation of Church and State. I did not hear the whole broadcast, so I do not know the circumstances of the case before the court. It will be interesting to see what the newspaper says about this decision tomorrow morning. Without a doubt, this decision will be reviewed by higher courts, possibly even the Supreme Court.

When this Country was founded, one of the serious questions the persons developing the government had to deal with was whether or not this Country should have a state religion, like most or all of the European countries did. Since many of the first colonists came to what would later become the United States because they wanted to be free to worship as they saw fit, and because they were oppressed for their religious beliefs and practices in Europe, many people absolutely did not want the Government to have any right to say how a person should worship. From this we got the first amendment, which starts: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

I respect the Constitution and agree with the idea of the separation of Church and State. The public schools are certainly part of the government, at one of the most basic levels. Though I personally do not have any problem with the Pledge of Allegiance, I can see where someone who was not a Christian could be offended and believe that their rights under the Constitution were being violated by being forced, or strongly encouraged to recognize the Judeo-Christian deity.

I would be very upset if my child's teacher happened to be a Buddhist, and that teacher had my child praying to Buddha. There are lots of religious groups that have beliefs that I do not subscribe to. If their members are teachers in the PUBLIC SCHOOLS, they had better keep their religious beliefs to themselves.

Like so many other things, the Constitution is a two edged sword: It cuts both ways. And it protects both ways.

The point is: if you wish to recognize God in the Pledge of Allegiance, go ahead. But it is probably Constitutionally wrong for the government, in the form of the public schools to require students to recognize God by saying the Pledge of Allegiance as it now reads.

Pretty long winded for an old Reb, wasn't I?



john d - That's an excellent explanation    Posted 06-28-2002 at 10:59:58       [Reply]  [No Email]
of your viewpoint, and I applaud you not only for the balanced way in which you presented your postion, but the articulate manner in which you expressed it!

Things of this sort tend to touch nerves that are too easily left raw. Following the 9/11 mess, there has been a big surge in patriotism, but also a HUGE surge in "patriotism for show" among the population. There seems to be a mindset among some folks that they want to somehow "prove" their patriotism through confrontation with any idea that they deem less patriotic than their own.

I was in elementary school when we had to "re-learn" the Pledge of Allegiance when the words "under God" were added. The Pledge itself wasn't common in schools until the 1940s, and truth be known, there are a LOT of patriotic Americans out there that couldn't sit down and write it word for word if they had to.

I doubt seriously that Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and some others that drafted our Declaration of Independence and the Constitution would easily understand or readily embrace the postion taken by the court. They probably wouldn't easily understand or readily embrace the interstate highway system, cell phones, or antibiotics, either.

The beauty of this country is the freedoms we have, and in a very real sense, we haven't "lost" a lot of freedoms in this country, we've just had to learn to exercise them without trampling on the rights of those who don't believe as we do. We all need to focus on the fact that in many countries, we wouldn't even be having this discussion!


hey reb ......bill b va    Posted 06-27-2002 at 03:13:20       [Reply]  [No Email]

another example of the creeping control of the people by the government . back when the constitution was wrote the schools weren't run by the government therfore not an issue. i believe this country will eventualy fail from decay from within . certainly not in my life time but it will come .there are many forces at work pulling in mamy directions .i am completely neutral on religion and don't have one but there are many that would change things to suit their beliefs . what i don't understand is why people want to come here for what it is and then try to change it to what they left . when they come here they know this country was founded by cristians so what is their problem? they are certainly free to leave if they don't like .if i were to go to another country i would live by their ways and laws or i wouldn't go there . i am not a fan of polititians but sort of favored the republicans until this past september . when they started talking about killing people before they even knew who was responsible was a little bit much for me . now they setting up a police state .oh they it is only for certain people but it only takes one stroke of a pen to change that to anyone citizens or not. colin powell made a statement last fall that i still don't get . he said ... first we are going to catch it and cut it's head off and then we are going kill it . think about that statement from a high level government leader


A Believer in America under GOD    Posted 06-27-2002 at 02:26:51       [Reply]  [No Email]
What are the courts going to do when one of those none believers refuses to put there hand on the Bible and refuses to repeat I bla bla tell the truth the whole truth bla bla bla bla so help me GOD or to whom it may concern. Might be interesting. Its amazing the few can stir up so much s#$%. Which the tax paer pays for.


screaminghollow    Posted 06-27-2002 at 00:12:55       [Reply]  [Send Email]
It is odd that this should come up so coincidentally. Actually, having grew up in an area with a large population of citizens of other countries, I wondered about making their kids "pledge allegience" Remember, it is a pledge to the flag, and the republic. It doesn't say democracy.
Also, the Declaration of Independence, is kind of scary. It says if the governement is not responsive to the needs, liberty, of the people or becomes tyrannical, the people have the right to declare their independence and establish a new gov't. Interesting to note that the Declaration of Independence is not, in any way, the law of the United States of America. In fact, the very right to rise up and be independent was what this United States government fought against in the Civil War. Remember the Montana Freemen. In many ways they, despite their other faults, were trying to uphold the very concepts of the Declaration of Independence, and the government crushed them like bugs. It is surprising how many Americans don't have the foggiest notion that the document we celebrate next week, along with it's concepts of inalienable rights...ain't worth squat in this modern day.


DIZ    Posted 06-27-2002 at 20:26:15       [Reply]  [No Email]
Set 'em up and crushed them. Those guys didn't even know where to get the sturff they wanted, until the FBI went about helping them and then arrested them. Do I agree with them, no. Do I agree with the Government, no. Can't agree with anyone ALL the time......... Point is, I am just agreeing with your thoughts, like every other post on this subject, everyone has made very valid points. And made me aware that I need to brush up on some things.


Redneck    Posted 06-27-2002 at 01:56:17       [Reply]  [No Email]
UH HUH.You can say that again.


DeadCarp    Posted 06-26-2002 at 21:36:08       [Reply]  [No Email]
I wouldn't give the court the satisfaction of knowing they woke me up. I'll recite it the way i have anyway, and vote to find smarter judges next time. Wuth all the shenanigans that have been going on, the country's about fed up, this Fall i think incumbents will have a distinct DISadvantage. Lately we'd probly be better off without gubmint. :)



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