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Country Discussion Topics
To add your comments to this topic, click on one of the 'Reply' links below.

Our health care system is a mess...
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Cowboy Joe    Posted 08-02-2002 at 19:59:39       [Reply]  [No Email]
Health care should be available for every citizen at a reasonable cost. Let's have universal health care for everyone. Any comments?


DeadCarp    Posted 08-03-2002 at 07:44:50       [Reply]  [No Email]
Their free system in Australia works okay - course they pay 47% taxes. Actually, we pay more than that WITHOUT health care! But pharmaceuticals and education are the most influential lobbies in Washington. I suggest we start by raising cane where the problem starts..


Irv    Posted 08-03-2002 at 07:33:35       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I think it is overdue for this country to get a universal health care system. Our major competitors have it, europe and japan. Our companies are being burdened with paying for health care not just for thier employees, but subsidizing the uninsured. This is a tremendous drag on our international competitiveness. And finally there is something just plain wrong about somebody IN THE USA who gets substandard health care. We are better than that.


Cowboy Joe    Posted 08-03-2002 at 08:53:46       [Reply]  [No Email]
I agree.


scooterhead    Posted 08-03-2002 at 07:14:33       [Reply]  [No Email]
Lets be take it easy , it`s things like this that we only have ONE board now !!!!


Rachel in MO    Posted 08-03-2002 at 06:04:10       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Hey, has anyone seen the movie John Q. ? It describes the health care system in the US pretty well and it's not a pretty picture. I, for one, have no health insurance. I work at home,take care of the stock and garden etc. I can't afford to pay for private heath insurance and am not old enuf for medicare. When I need to see a doc, i pay cash. And there are times, like right now when we can't afford to go see a dentist and both need to. Mark has his VA but they don't take care of eyesight (glasses) or dentistry. Just to have a tooth pulled is over a hundred bucks and that's cheap. That's by the local dentist nicknamed Ruff Huff! And he is. I wish we had a health care system more like Canada or Britain. There are a lot of working middleclass who slip thru the cracks of our health care system. Sorry for sounding off but it's a real problem for a lot of us. Rachel in MO


Cowboy Joe    Posted 08-03-2002 at 08:55:12       [Reply]  [No Email]
You're absolutely right.


ger    Posted 08-03-2002 at 06:10:38       [Reply]  [No Email]
hey thanks ,i was feeling like custer there for awhile haha , its hard when you need things an not everybody can afford them but in my humble opion nobody should be denied help when their sick, you can do with alot but when a person old or young in between gets sick an they need medical they should get it , later gerry


Mudcat49    Posted 08-03-2002 at 06:00:46       [Reply]  [No Email]
Oh Goody!!! A BIG CAN OF WORMS!! (Grabs it and goes fishing!)


ger    Posted 08-03-2002 at 06:13:00       [Reply]  [No Email]
a 45 gallon drum full an to think cowboy joe started all this where is he lol enjoy later ger


bob    Posted 08-03-2002 at 05:56:59       [Reply]  [No Email]
The thing I can,t get through my mind is you get a bill from dr. for 900 dollars and if you have ins. or medicare they only pay say 350 and eat the rest but if no ins. do you have to pay all of bill> Seems like just make it for 350 in first place. Maybe thats why I,m dumb and poor


Why?...MikeC    Posted 08-03-2002 at 04:43:17       [Reply]  [Send Email]
First define a reasonable cost? Second, define every citizen. Got those in your mind? Good. Our health care system already takes care of everyone-citizen or non citizen. And people who actually work for a living like me foot the bill (not by choice). Health care is not a right, nor should it be. The cheaper you make it the more people will abuse it, and the few that are left that are really paying the bill are kinda tired of hearing the freeloaders whine.


Cowboy Joe    Posted 08-03-2002 at 08:57:27       [Reply]  [No Email]
So far, your opinion seems to be in the minority.


Les some more    Posted 08-03-2002 at 06:21:52       [Reply]  [No Email]
Bob, Mike C, Muddy: excellent points.
Some years ago when my son was "out of the nest", he had no insurance and needed laser surgery on one of his retinas to keep it from tearing. Good ole dad went to the ophthalmologist and told him to do the surgery, we'll pay cash for it.
His response: "In that case, I'll charge you the Medicare rate". (About $900, which was roughly half of the "going rate" for people with insurance).
That tells me that, like Mike C. says, we're already paying for all the freeloaders.
Keep the government OUT of it, PLEASE. Show me a social program the government can point to as a success.
The reason prescriptions are so high (along with 'most everything else) can be traced right back to (surprise, surprise) lawyers. Tort reform would solve a lot of these problems. Don't look for it anytime soon, though. Trial lawyers is way powerful in Washington, D.C.


ger    Posted 08-03-2002 at 05:32:53       [Reply]  [No Email]
i agree with ya mike but things are abused by some all the time so does the majority suffer because of a few. i,ve worked all my life paid my way , my taxes go toward paying for health care in this country my health care periumns go toward paying for health care in this country ,they just go to governments , who in turn adminertiser the system. should they go to private company,s maybe but in this country the majority of people have consistenly said over an over in elections an polls that this is the health care system they want, we are a demoratic country aren,t we still .we could have private companys like enron or world com an the coporate crooks that go with them provide us with health we just chose to go with crooked polications who we can vote out every four years.in canada the federal govt. regulates the canada health act ,the provinical govt. ,s are responsible for actually adminersting the health care system in each an every province.some provinces do a good job others do a poor job.we have two provinces side by side here alberta an b.c. in alberta the feds having been giving them a hard time for years over private clincs in bc the y have said very little ,alta. has a pretty good system here bc,s is over loaded the wbc uses the private clincs more than anybody to jump ahead of others to get workers back to work sooner , a no no under the health act,the rich also use it some like that an so do americans from the pacific northwest whose dollar goes alot farther up , here , but this also frees the puplic system up for others so in a way it all helps out , i don,t really see alot of harm in that .an the feds don,t say much in b,c either . theres alot of pro,s an con,s for each an i personally think both could compliment each other but im just me an the powers that be say the way things are , in the meantime i think we have a system that certainly needs help but it also serves us ok an in this day an age i guess thas all anybody can ask for, an i hope this is all i have to have to say because we all have our own opions about things, an we should , an im not here to tell anybody to change theirs im only expressing mine which is i support the canadian health care system , if something better were to come along an the majority wanted it an i felt it was good id support that also, there is always room for improvenments in anything, hope this explans my feelings an i hope ya have a good day later ger


Cowboy Joe    Posted 08-03-2002 at 09:01:26       [Reply]  [No Email]
I'll take the general concept of universal health care coverage for all, perhaps with some tweaking. If you want to label it socialism, then so be it. No one should be denied coverage because they're poor or unable to pay for it.


buck    Posted 08-03-2002 at 11:43:40       [Reply]  [No Email]

You see right off the bat. If this is socialism so be it. With this little bit of concern you are saying. So what if we live under a dictator as long as I get what I want. Are you willing to work for a minimum wage so everyone will get he same treatment wheather they work or not? While you walk the streets of Manhattan ask yourself if you would take the place the the homeless person for that is what you will become if you continue to promote your class norming attitude. Don't you realize that if you work,pay taxes and insurance premiums that you are supporting the person that does not. Don't you realize that the money the government spends is the money that the worker has earned.I don't care one bit for your attitude but hey the last major vote in this country was as close to a 50/50 split as one can get


Cowboy Joe    Posted 08-03-2002 at 14:31:46       [Reply]  [No Email]
And what about folks who are too sick or incapable of working? Should we throw them to the wolves?


bob    Posted 08-03-2002 at 17:07:21       [Reply]  [No Email]
I don,t think we really throw these people to the wolves as you say. we have medicane and title 19 which help people a lot its just you have to have someone make an effort to get person enrolled. I have no problem helping someone who has a problem. I will say sometimes they have a better deal than us working stiffs. If on title 19 they get same care as person paying the tab which is fair. It isn,t perfect but it could be a hl of a lot worse


Cowboy Joe    Posted 08-03-2002 at 17:29:05       [Reply]  [No Email]
Most of my clients who come to my agency for counseling/psychotherapy are on Medicaid which provides complete (no cost) health care coverage. I'm paying $339 per month for my group health care coverage as an Independent Contractor. Something's wrong with this scenario.


scooterhead    Posted 08-03-2002 at 04:10:37       [Reply]  [No Email]
I cant say whats right or wrong here , F14 has a good idea on the price limits . I dont think we can shoot ger down and the canadian system when he is the only one here with the personal expereance .


ger    Posted 08-03-2002 at 05:45:10       [Reply]  [No Email]
i sure jumped into the middle of something here last night lol that,ll teach me to go out on the town haha,how ya doin this fine am sooterhead have a good day later ger


F14    Posted 08-03-2002 at 03:57:48       [Reply]  [No Email]
Heck of an idea. Just don't let the gubbermint get ahold of it. You think it's screwed up now...

Read some of the horror stories from Britain and Canada's national healthcare system. If that's the best they can do, I'll stick with what we've got.

Some price controls would be nice, tho.


Saddlebum ... putting out fires with gasoline *g*    Posted 08-02-2002 at 22:29:14       [Reply]  [No Email]
Well, I'm with Kraig and Lee on this one. We do have a form of universal health care here in the U.S. available to some people. It's called the Indian Health Service. It consists of hospitals and clinics throughout the U.S. that are run by either IHS (which is under the BIA, which is under the DOI) or a specific tribe for tribal members. I am trying to choose my words carefully, because I have numerous relatives who are/have been employed with IHS and have been employed within a tribal health system myself, and don't want to appear disloyal, but I don't think they'd argue a whole bunch with my feelings on it. It's similar to the Canadian system in many ways and shares many of the same problems. As a lifelong patient of both tribal and IHS systems, I will nearly always use my insurance and go to a private practitioner, instead. They do provide an amazing amount of service, considering their budgets and other constraints, and I'm glad they exist, but I would hate for them (or a similar system) to be our only option.

Interesting subject. How about some sort of universal insurance instead? (Okay, guys jump on in and tell us about how bad it would get milked! And you know, you're probably right. *g*)


ger    Posted 08-02-2002 at 23:08:24       [Reply]  [No Email]
once again how is ihs or trible similar to the canadian system i don,t know enough about the canadain health act to compare a statement like that so you must be pretty in tune with ours as well as your own , but one thing here we can go to private clinic here they all over theres dozens in calgary and every other major city in the country we can go to the states mexico or anywhere we want,we can pay or own sometimes we can bill our health providers for our treatment or in some instances we can bill the govt or the govt, will pay anyway were not limited to the health care we want or need , i dont see us as being reliant onany one type of health as our only ,.provider.i dont mean to come across as being rude an im sorry if i am its late but i really don,t think you have a true understanding of what we have here ,i,ll be the first to admit that our system is under the gun but there are many many reasons why this is so it would take abattery of experts all night to list everything so i will not even try ,man am i long winded sorry didnt, know i was this passionate about this haha any have a good nigh t talk at ya later ger


Saddlebum    Posted 08-03-2002 at 08:17:18       [Reply]  [No Email]
ger, you're absolutely right and I apologize (that's what I get for writing late at night, lol). I don't probably have a true picture of Canada's system--I was responding based on what some friends of mine who are transplanted Canadians here in OK have told me. And that led me to think it was somewhat similar to our IHS/tribal model. You guys are lucky in that if someone needs something critical you have big hospitals in your system that can handle it, and patients can be life-flighted there, if need be. We don't have that, although they may be life-flighted to a non-tribal medical facility, and then they have to wait and see whether contract health care will agree to pay the charges. So a family with a medical catastrophe may end up with everything paid for, or they may end up with an astronomical medical bill. It's scary not to know up front. We do wait a long time for routine things. It may take six months to get in for an eye or dental appointment. They may not have the latest medical equipment or meds. And a patient may not be able to see the same doctor twice or may only get to see a nurse. It sounds like Canada has worked out a lot of those things...wish our system would. And yet, it is not all bad here by any means--just lots of room for improvement.


ger    Posted 08-03-2002 at 10:41:26       [Reply]  [No Email]
no please accept my apogology,it was late an you made some very good points an belive me we have problems in our system too but it does a reasonable job for us ,some bad experiences also but in the last 4 yrs i lost my mom dad an mom inlaw an what the health care system did for them was alright , my dad lived 16yrs longer than most 80%would not have made it the first 24 hrs and that was thanks to the excellent care he got at foothill,s in calgary an here in our little town, i was nearly gone twice in the last two years an im still here bugging you all,but in short if you read my posts y,ll see where i said theres good an bad an with everything an i would like to a ststem where they could compilment each other now im not talking any more bout stuff like this to heavy .think i,ll go find cowboy joe see iffin he wants ta talk policits an reglion tonigh t ha ha ,have a good one an i,ll catch ya later,gerry


ger    Posted 08-02-2002 at 22:52:57       [Reply]  [No Email]
this could also be an endless discussion an never convince each other of our preferences but for me ,i find our health care system a good one and yes i would also like to see it improved as i would like to see anything worthwhile get better an better to serve the needs of the people,are there better systems probably is canada,s no good i don,t think so ,its been servinr us for years and yes it,s dropped the ball sometimes but all in all its there an and you won,t be turned away if you can,t afford it.


ger    Posted 08-02-2002 at 22:46:48       [Reply]  [No Email]
hey i ,m no expert on our system , but it isn,t all that bad , could it be improved ,of course but it is an acceptable system an works an has for a long time ,the canada health act diticates the ther be univerisal health care avabile to all , there are private clinic here an in b.c. the biggest user of them is the workers compensation (GOVT).but all in all we have a pretty good system an many of us are glad we have it.we worry if its substainable,an hope that its there for us in our old age after all we,ve paid all our working lives one way or another for this so i hope it survives at least as i grow older an need it


kraig WY Nope You Keep It    Posted 08-02-2002 at 21:42:25       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Before you start raving about uniform health coverage you should talk to some of our Canadian friends. I read Hilary's health care plan. I would rather go to the vet. Use to spend a lot of time running around Alberta. There were a bounch of private health clinics poping up because people would rather pay the use the government system. That was when Hilary was using Canada as an example so the government shut down the private clinics because it made their system look bad.

If the government has any thing to do with it I don't want it.


ger    Posted 08-02-2002 at 22:08:13       [Reply]  [No Email]
hey guys our health care system isn,t so bad its there for all weather you have health coverage or not,.nobody can be denied because its univerisal ,does it have problems ,sure it does but all things do but if you get sick here your not gonna have to sell your home to pay your medical bill ,not yet any way.there are private clinics here an yes lots of people do go to the states if they can afford it but thats usually because they can get what they need and faster , we, pretty lucky here if something serious happens they chopper the patient to calgary or in some cases edmonton an they have very good medical care ,down in vancouver they have more problems ,some because of high immiration the hospitals are over loaded an the wait is long for some things so people will go down to seattle an even the govt. will send an pay for people to go down to seattle, we pay for our health care in various ways we pay periums for coverage or through payroll,im no expert by far on it ,but im glad we have what we have an i know it has its problems but im pretty glad we have what we have for a health care system. an do you really belive everything that hillary says? later ger


Lee    Posted 08-02-2002 at 20:31:55       [Reply]  [No Email]
The main reason healthcare is completely ridiculous is not greedy doctors, but greedy trial lawyers. Look in the yellow pages some time under attorneys. They pratically beg you to sue somebody. They think everyone should have a reason to sue somebody. Malpratice insurance is out of sight because of it. Drug companies gouge too and so do hospitals and even doctors. I am convinced however that we've got to pull the reins in on some of these law suits and do something to promote a competitive market in the health care industry to drive down prices.

Gov't run health care is not the answer. Look at the education system or anything else the gov't runs. Heck people from Canada come down here for health care, if they can afford it.

I don't want the federal government performing periodic maintenence on my car or my body.


ger    Posted 08-02-2002 at 22:14:40       [Reply]  [No Email]
there,s bus loads of seniors comming up here from montana with their house rep. sponsering the trips to have their perciptions filled, because the drugs are way cheaper up here and thats no even factoring the dollar difference,so you gotta consider all things before discounting any, ive had some pretty serious health problems the past two years an most recently the past3 months an im glad for our health an phamacare system here ,again thers problems but there is with everything .later ger


Les    Posted 08-02-2002 at 22:03:07       [Reply]  [No Email]
Lee and Kraig both spoke for me. Good job, you two.


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