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Any of you install a stand pipe?
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Mike D. still asking ??? about pond stuff    Posted 09-17-2002 at 06:52:55       [Reply]  [No Email]
Can a stand pipe be held fast with rip-rap? The specs. I read from a pipe company say to secure the base of the stand pipe in a concrete footing.
If the footing gets eroded the stand pipe is bound to look like that tower of in Italy, won't it?

We hope to install the outlet (downfall) pipe and build the dam as we can afford to do so. Then install the fitting and stand pipe at the end of the project. Probably will take a few years but we don't care about that, time is the thing we got more of. If the stand pipe has to be anchored in crete then I got to make provisions somehow for it when I install the outlet pipe?

Any help with this would sure be a help. Been pulling my hair out, don't want to do this wrong.
We've had good help from the pros. Hydraulajests, and such. Got all the pipe sized right, etc. Water has been on our mind a whole lot during the past 3 years what with this drought.

We repaired our smaller pond this summer. Needed nearly 60 yards of fill and a whole lot of grading. And some Ibuprofin for the old backache. A neighbor shot the elevations last weekend. Our spillway is right as rain, so rain is all the more welcome now. We followed the advice that we received from you folks when we worked up that repair. Sure feels good to have the job finished. I will try to post a picture today.

Looks more & more like water has become a distant
friend here in the mid-Atlantic. We hope all you folks are doing o.k. with what water you got.

Hogman    Posted 09-17-2002 at 15:42:41       [Reply]  [No Email]
Perhaps I do'nt understand exactly what Your plan is, but seems ta Me You should be layin tha outfall (DRAIN) pipe befor or at least in conjunction with Your stand pipe. Too, I see no need for tha full length of stand pipe untill You are ready to construct tha Dam and start impoundment

Mike D. more info    Posted 09-17-2002 at 18:00:42       [Reply]  [No Email]
Doing the outfall pipe in conjunction with rebuilding the old dam. The pond was 75 years old when it gave up in a hurricane in '85.

The outfall pipe will serve as a culvert to allow water to pass while we rebuild the dam. When the dam is finished then I'll ad the connecting fitting and the riser pipe and watch mother nature take her course. The idea of setting the fitting and the base of the riser into concrete has thrown me some. I'd like to know if I could use rip-rap on a 2-1 grade up 2/3rds. of the pipe.
The water level will be approx. 8' deep and will be about 75' wide at the dam and graually sloping back another 350 feet or so. It will be narrow and long. Not big, but water nevertheless.

The drainage that will feed this pond site has been badly affected by our drought. A good time to get after the old pond site, Lord knows I don't do so well with heavey equipment and damp spots.

Hogman    Posted 09-17-2002 at 18:28:16       [Reply]  [No Email]
If it's all good'n solid at tha bottom so Your rock don't slip around any I'd say it would be ok. But tha next question is how Ya figure ta drain tha pond if need be in tha future?
Tha rock would give a little more flexibility for any future repair,alteration,clean out etc.
You might want ta stretch tha grade out just a tad, 2:1 is only angle of repose. I've honchoed layin many thousands of tons of rock on a 45 to near 90 foot high but for tha small area You'll have I'd play it safe'n use just a dab more. IMHO of course.

Mike D glad to get all these answers-    Posted 09-18-2002 at 06:11:23       [Reply]  [No Email]
Thanks for input-
I'll use more rock. I'd figured 2-1 would be an absolute minimum to start from. Do you think going up 2/3's of the pipe is overkill?

We'll use a big AG pump to drain it when the time comes. Both the pipe supplier and the hydroguy said that valves go bad after 20 years of hydrostatic pressure against them. Both recommended that I rent as big a pump as I can find when it is time to drain it.

They recommened that the outfall pipe be oversized to carry off the water while we work the dam, bottom, and banks. That will cost more upfront. I guess there is a need for an anti-seep collar to be welded onto the outfall pipe. With the bigger pipe and collar we'll be tapped out for a while. After that I'm hoping that the cost will mostly be diesel, oil, hydraulic oil, a hose or two, bar oil, pre-mix, some wore out chains, and some sweat.
Both our boys are in diapers, it has been mentioned that if they are in school before I finish then I've spent too much time on it. Makes me think...

buck    Posted 09-17-2002 at 09:11:52       [Reply]  [No Email]

Mike Would it be possible for you to post the pipe size that we are dealing with here? The drainage area contribting to this pond along with the pond size and depth at the standpipe. My assumption is that the standpipe will control the normal water level and that the spillway will take care of flood waters. It is NOT my intention to question the work of your hydraulics engineers. Yes I spent 30 years in roadway drainage engineering.

Mike D. late with reply- hope you are still there-    Posted 09-18-2002 at 11:44:12       [Reply]  [No Email]
Hello Buck,
We've nearly settled on a 24" pipe with a 48" anti-seep collar set back 5-6'. The pond is small, and narrow. Depth at the riser will be about 8'. The spillway will be about 20' wide and will be another foot above the riser. The dam will be about 20' wide at the top with about a 50' base. Lots of dirt work. The borrow site is close enough that I'll probably overkill the thing.
The existing dam was built about 75 years ago. It washed where it was built up over rock instead of clay. We are moving the thing forward and into a clay bed. The earlier pond put back an acre of water by surface area. It was narrow and 12' deep at the dam. Our new pond will be considerably smaller with a much bigger dam and wider spillway. The drainage is hard for me to describe, but it will be fed by about 160 acres
of run-off and 5 springs that I know of ( all dried up currantly).
I'd appreciate any more thought you might want to share about the project. There is too much work to do this twice. Mike

buck    Posted 09-18-2002 at 22:29:52       [Reply]  [No Email]

Mike-- Your original question was could the standpipe be held fast with riprap. Now you have supplied plenty of very useful information and form what I have gathered from all these post the answer is no.I will attempt to explain.In culvert and standpipe situations many times the condition of floation must be taken into consideration.Under some conditions the pipe will be like trying to hold a metal drum that has no leaks under water. Your culvert/standpipe combination may be in this situation because you will attemp to make it all water tight. When you stack the 8'of water round the standpipe it is going to want to float.Think about this like trying to get an empty glass to sit on the bottom of a sink full of water.Holding the base down with concrete is one way to overcome this but the standpipe and culvert must be fastened securly. Extending the standpipe below the culvert and filling it with stone or concrete up to the culvert is another method. Placing the rip rap around the standpipe can hold it upright but will not counter the uplift forces.I would suggest that you have your engineer or the pipe supplier give you a design on this and follow that design. On your proposed time frame of constructon I would like to add a note of caution. If after placing your culvert and bringing up your core and fill for the dam embankment and the pond side fill is flatter than 2:1 and your height of fill is greater than 2 times the diameter of the pipe there is a high risk of culvert failure during a flood event.Again bring this to the attention of your engineer or pipe supplier. Wish you the best with your project and I think you have a mostly good plan.

Mike D. whoa- I get it now.    Posted 09-19-2002 at 06:20:51       [Reply]  [No Email]
Well now, I feel much better about asking.
I just didn't have full confidence in the thing yet. Thank goodness for this site and for folks like you and the others who take the time to share what they know.
The glass in the sink did it for me. Man, we sure can't build this thing twice, thats for sure. I can see now why the fitting, standpipe (riser) and that section of the outfall pipe needs to be rock solid. The budget will grow, but we want this pond to serve the farm for decades to come, so the longer it lasts the cheaper it gets, right?
Thanks Buck, I'd have you over for dinner if you were ever close enough to belly up. Mike

tomatolord    Posted 09-17-2002 at 08:34:40       [Reply]  [Send Email]
my friends stand pipe broke partialy at the elbow joint well below the water line during a storm and almost drained his pond!!

He could not fix it without draining his pond - he had to call in a concrete pumping company to pump the exit pipe full to stop the drain up.

We threw about 30 bags of cement in but that did not even slow it down any.

so plan not only for this pipe, but if you need to fix it how would you go about putting another pipe inside this one.

good luck

the lake we are on the overlow is a concrete structure with a box at the bottom for the concrete outflow pipe. It is way over engineered however, it is in great shape and has lasted through some major hurricanes.

good luck

Mike D. sorry for the late reply- hope you are still there-    Posted 09-18-2002 at 11:50:15       [Reply]  [No Email]
Wow, bet the neighbor was disappointed
some. What kind of pipe was it? What kind of fitting was it? How had his riser pipe been supported? Sure would like you to tell me...

tomatolord    Posted 09-18-2002 at 18:21:38       [Reply]  [Send Email]
the pipe was corrugated grey metal - standard drain pipe - dont know what they are made of

The problem probably was that it was NOT supported it just ran down to a junction box

The same pipe ran out from the junction box through the dam.

Once a while back the original pipe started to leak so he fitted this pipe over the top of it

then he pounded the pipe into the ground.

I guess over time the pipe at the junction broke free.

Cant really blame my friend - he bought the house with the pond already there

Oh one other important point is what to do when you have 10 inches of rain. You will someday get that much so where will all these extra water flow.

Here in NC, a hurricane 2 years ago wiped out hundreds of small farm dams that overflowed and washed out the dams...

He now just has a plastic pipe out the side of the dam, where his overflow is located, he just dug a ditch and stuck the pipe in. Which is really not too bad of a solution.

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