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Hydraulic Pump
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Jim (Mi)    Posted 11-15-2002 at 07:41:37       [Reply]  [No Email]
Have any of you guys ever rebuilt a hydraulic pump. I have an external pump for my Koyker Loader on my Allis WD. I made a bracket that I mount the pump to and run it off the dampener pulley. I replaced all the lines as they were weather checked and the cylinders, and just had the three spool rebuilt. Now the pump is last thing left. It has a major leak at the shaft. Has anyone ever tackled this on their own, or are there lots of things that will spring out, and I should take it in?

Greg    Posted 11-15-2002 at 19:21:12       [Reply]  [Send Email]

If this is a gear pump and by the vintage you describe, it probably is, if you measure the gear length and the diameter of the housing there is a formula to determine G.P.M. output.
I would also believe that it is by the fact you say it was a motor. A gear motor or pump does not need a case drain. It doesn`t have a case to drain. A hydraulic pump is easily turned into a motor.
A vane pump would not be a motor turned pump.
Either way, the output is easily determined.
The worst part is it probably is an aluminum cast housing and if it is leaking as bad as you say, it`s JUNK. The bores will be so badly worn they won`t seal against the gears. Sorry.

Bob MR    Posted 11-15-2002 at 12:16:14       [Reply]  [No Email]
I have decided I HATE hydraulic stuff. I took my pump to three different places. The first two seen it, and all the employees agreed they never seen anything even close to it. Then the third finally said a looooooooooong time ago he seen something similiar. It is actually a motor, not a pump. I explained that I was looking to get around 20-21gpm. They said that that pump was no where near 20-21gpm, which I was aware of.They are guestimating it is producing around 8-15. The pump was noisy since day one. One problem is the inlet and outlet ports are the same size.He said this was starving the pump, and regardless the pump needs more juice. So I figured I would just get a new pump that would give a better output. Now comes the next problem. I mount to the front of the tractor thru the hand crank shaft, and go direct drive to the dampener. The radius of the loader does not allow me to get a longer pump. So working in my packaging constraints, the best pump I can get is 15gpm.So right now, they are testing it to see the current output, and seeing what direction I should go. So I should be getting an answer in a few days. Boy do I love originality. $$$$$$$$

Bob/Ont    Posted 11-15-2002 at 12:52:31       [Reply]  [No Email]
A motor eh. There is a lot of your trouble. A pump has a drilling from behind the shaft seal to the suction port, this prevents oil pressure build up behind the seal, a motor has to have a small"case drain" line from there back to the tank as the motor could have either port pressurized depending which direction you are running it in.A new pump is best for you Jim, now just make sure that the drive is centered/ shaft alligned well with the crankshaft when you put it together.
Later Bob

Bob/Ont    Posted 11-15-2002 at 08:03:30       [Reply]  [No Email]
You can do it Jim. Just be careful to keep everything organized so you get it back the same as it was.Is this a gear or vane pump?The shaft may have grooves worn at the seal area and cause this leak, you can get a thin sleeve and put on it from a bearing supplyer or maybe where you get your seals. Also clean off the pump and get it's name and any numbers, this will help you get the right seals. Good luck.
Later Bob

Jim (Mi)    Posted 11-15-2002 at 08:19:10       [Reply]  [No Email]
That is one problem. I have it off, and spit shined it up. There is no manufacturer #'s or name. It is approx a 6" square pump. There are four bolts total in each corner that hold it together with a center shaft about 3/4". It started leaking as I was driving it home after putting in fencing a few months back. It was leaking so bad, the fluid was going through the radiator and the fan was throwing it all over. That was a fun soaking. I ended up towing it home. a guy that is very knowledgeful about tractors and hyd stuff said he was pretty sure it was a decently common pump, and a rebuild kit should not be to hard. I called Koyker, and this vintage (70's) would surely have a different manufacturer on the pump. The loader is rated at 22gpm, and the spool's are set at 21gpm. My buddy said I would be lucky if this thing at best was producing 12-13gpm. Saying that was about what this pump would produce. Can you get kits to upgrade the gpm.

MR    Posted 11-15-2002 at 09:22:05       [Reply]  [No Email]
I have A CD from Vickers with all there service information. I'm working right now. If I have time later this afternoon I can look thru the CD And see if a can find a pump like you discribed.

MR    Posted 11-15-2002 at 09:51:36       [Reply]  [No Email]
Look at this picture and Let me know if this looks like what you have.

Dennis N-OK    Posted 05-24-2004 at 21:49:20       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Hi, MR said that he had a CD on Vicker Pumps. I have a Vickers Vane Pump. Could someone tell me where I could obtain a copy of that cd or information on it.

Thank you


Jim (Mi)    Posted 11-15-2002 at 10:06:19       [Reply]  [No Email]
Not really. I am getting out of here now, so I will try to get an Id on it in a few. Boy do I wish I have a digital Cam.

Jim (Mi)    Posted 11-15-2002 at 09:26:43       [Reply]  [No Email]
I have he pump in my car, I was gonna take it to a shop after work and have them test it for it's output. And see if I can get a manufacturer. Since it is National Deer hunter's day, GM has the day off, except me.:>( I figured scooting out about 1 or so, and seeing if I can do some damage. I will go to my sister's and post my finding tonight.

Bob/Ont    Posted 11-15-2002 at 08:53:50       [Reply]  [No Email]
Jim, the pump you describe sounds like a Vickers vane pump but it would have the name cast into the back of it and a raised section stamped with it's number. I would take it apart now, removing the 4 bolts should do that, then see what it looks like inside. Vane tip/camring and sideplate wear. In side the pump a cartrige which is made up of the parts I just mentioned plus the rotor, should come out. The cartrige is the part you need to be careful with and keep everything in the right order, you will see what I mean when you get there.To get more GPM you need a larger cartrige or more RPM. If this pump is like a Vickers they have o ring's and backup ring's on the front of the cartrige that hold the output oil apart from the inlet oil. If these seals blew they would flood the shaft area with pressure oil and leak bad too. If the loader had a speed acceptable to you I would just try to reseal the pump. Let me know what you find.
Later Bob

Jim (Mi)    Posted 11-15-2002 at 09:05:42       [Reply]  [No Email]
Oh boy, that sounds easy. :>) The loader is real slow, even from the get go. When I replaced the bucket cylinders it slowed up a little bit more. The thing has tons more power than the tractor can handle. I really need more gpm. replacing with larger gears sounds like someone with actual working knowledge of these things should test it and get me the parts. I sure as heck have none. LOL I was gonna have this done a little while ago. But I have put quite a few dollars in my loader project. Then I just rebuilt my engine in my car over the last couple weeks. Wife is starting to limit my toy budget.:>( I figured I could save a few dollars doing it myself. From what you type I am a little weary. I see you are Ont, how close to Port Huron Mi. :>) I go to Canada (Sarnia Casino) about twice a week. Tell me you are close. LOL

Bob/Ont    Posted 11-15-2002 at 09:28:03       [Reply]  [No Email]
Jim, I am around 3 hrs east of the border in Richmond Hill, when I'm home, but now We are out in Calgary for a couple of weeks. You may have a worn out pump but I have seen the seals blow on vane pumps and cause flow loss. If the shaft comes out the center of the pump it's a vane pump, if it comes out to one side of center you have a gear pump. I think you should open it up and see what you find, then you can decide what to do. OH and Jim, I would like to take this oppertunity to give you a HUGE THANK YOU, from our Native People, for your generous support at Sarnia:<)
Later Bob

Jim (Mi)    Posted 11-15-2002 at 09:43:39       [Reply]  [No Email]
Believe me, I have been REAL generous over the years. :>( Since it is a charity, I just keep telling myself it is for charity. Me and my wife do some real damage over there. She is a big contributor over there also. Ever see Lampoon's in Vegas? I am like Chevy Chase. The dealer would be less painful if he just took me out back, and beat the crap out of me. To me it is like a Quest. I know I am gonna lose, but that 1 time out of 30 I can beat him. I get really happy. :>) Kinda funny story. My wife went to Vegas a while back. She was playing the slots as always. I guess the ones with the red lights were all 5c machines. So she put is a 20 at this machine with a red light on top. It said 5$, but she thought it was for 5c. Anyways the first roll she hit for 1000, the lady was all happy for her that was next to her. She looked at the ladt, and said why so excited, they are only nickels. Then a few rolls later she hit again. I walk up to her after taking a butt whipping at BlackJack and asked her how she was doing. She said not bad, but she was down to about 300 credits, after being up about 2000. I looked at the machine and told her why would you nao cas out at $2000. She goes what are you talking about, they are only nickels. I told her to look again at the sign. She goes,that explains why the lady was so happy. Boy was she bummed. I told her not to beat herself up to bad, since had she realized the actual play amount, she would of never sat down in the first place. :>) My Aunt and Uncle a big gamblers, when I told them this, they were loving it.

Bob/Ont    Posted 11-15-2002 at 12:59:34       [Reply]  [No Email]
We go to the ones near us sometimes too Jim. I saw that movie too, liked the line where cousin Eddie said "It's guys like you that build these places not him" (the dealer):<)
Later Bob

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