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Country Discussion Topics
To add your comments to this topic, click on one of the 'Reply' links below.

Anyone else worried?
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Ana    Posted 11-19-2002 at 06:59:45       [Reply]  [No Email]
Guess it's a good thing I'm getting older cause this news information worries me about our future. Anyone else concerned?

(Reuters) - In a victory for the Bush administration, a secretive appeals court Monday ruled the U.S. government has the right to use expanded powers to wiretap terrorism suspects under a law adopted after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. The ruling was a blow to civil libertarians who say the expanded powers, which allow greater leeway in conducting electronic surveillance and in using information obtained from the wiretaps and searches, jeopardize constitutional rights.

Why did it need to be secret? Isn't the term terrorist a pretty loose term these days? If I question the government, like right here, can I become suspect? Of course, if they wiretapped me they would find that I am very BORING! :)



CJ in SD    Posted 11-19-2002 at 22:53:02       [Reply]  [No Email]
Nah, of course not. The senate just approved our own personal Homeland Security Department. Isn't that nice? A twenty first centy SS of our own devising and our 'duly elected representitives' voted it in. Looks like we didn't learn from history and we are doomed to repeat it. So much for Republicans being for Less government. We voted for nazis and didn't know it. Boy, do I feel secure now or what? (Mostly, or what.)


Burrhead    Posted 11-19-2002 at 18:54:40       [Reply]  [No Email]
Dang right I'm concerned. Course you know with a post like yours that makes you a red alert for talerban attacks.

They'll cuss yer family and tell ye that the feller saying the Pres was lying on tv WAS really Moses, but take it in stride.

Income tax was only sposed to be temporary was'nt it. Look where it is today

IRS does'nt have to play by the silly outdated constitutional rules. Now the justice dept don't either.

Ratwingers blame it all on the demogogs but I remember several GOP (Gulf Oil Property) leaders that was crooks. Come to think of it all the GOP leaders have been crooks in my lifetime.

Did ye notice the feller they want to be in charge was also pardoned by Bush Sr. He was pardoned for his part in Iran-Contra.

Seeing how Bush Sr kept Iran-Contra so legal and the public so well informed and all I'm sure this new furererland control man will do the same.

If he don't work out for Scrub we can get Manuel Noriega to pinch hit for us.


Cowboy Joe    Posted 11-20-2002 at 10:49:17       [Reply]  [No Email]
YER RIGHT AS USUAL.


Burrhead    Posted 11-20-2002 at 16:51:38       [Reply]  [No Email]
good to see ye still around CJ.


Ol Henry    Posted 11-19-2002 at 12:30:10       [Reply]  [No Email]
You are allready being watched by big business, ever hear of doubleclick? they are on your computer right now. every time you use a credit card you are being added to a list somewhere.
If you purchace an item from some busineses they want your name and address so they can send you some junk mail. it goes on and on
So the question is who do you fear the most, big business ,big government or some extreme religous nut that would like to see us all dead?


Les...fortunate    Posted 11-19-2002 at 12:02:51       [Reply]  [No Email]
If most of you worriers below actually were concerned enough to see what this ruling really means.....Oh, never mind. I'm quite sure that will never happen.
I'm just happy to see some adult leadership back in charge after eight years of let the good times roll party that went on in the executive branch. For crying out loud, they had to convince Hillary's brother that he really did have to get out of the white house (because the party was REALLY over) just a few hours before the Bushes were to arrive.


Burrhead    Posted 11-19-2002 at 18:30:59       [Reply]  [No Email]
Could ye elaborate on them world issues and histerie lessons fer me Bro Gomer?????

An imitation Gyrene giving worldly wisdom is always stimulating.

If yer giving histery lessons to us poor less edjerkated fellers could you also give me yer wisdom on Iran-Contra and Watergate??? How bout Moses and the gun law???

While I'm gettin tutored could ye splain the Jennifergate deal with Scrub Sr or the Harken Energy stock sales by Jr, or maybe the reason a imitation gyrene trooper can cuss a man on welfare for leaching from the same gubermint that the wannabees cry about cause weekend drills don't pay more???

Thank you in advance for your aged wisdom.


big fred    Posted 11-19-2002 at 10:36:22       [Reply]  [No Email]
Worried? Not really. I work for a defense contractor, so the gummint already has an open door into investigating me if they wish. We also receive occasional warnings that we are a probable target for terrorist attack, just in case we forget we're at war. But since the attacks in Sept 2001, I've seen 30,000 of my co-workers lose their jobs as a result of the attacks, so not much danger we'll forget. I'm more concerned with the federal government taxing us and spending the money on things that have no Constitutional basis at all, like welfare, education (welfare for teacher's unions), prescription drugs and healthcare, subsidies to business (including farmers) and food stamps. They seem to have no problem violating the rights of some by taking their money and giving it to others in order to buy votes. That's what worries me.


Farmer Wantabe    Posted 11-19-2002 at 19:34:22       [Reply]  [No Email]
Well Big Fred and Kraig I guess that means there is at least THREE non-socialists in this country, includ'en me. That's two more than I thought ther wus.


kraig WY I think we must have went to the same school    Posted 11-19-2002 at 15:25:24       [Reply]  [No Email]
regarding welfare, government subsidies an such.


REA    Posted 11-19-2002 at 15:00:37       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Hi Ana, I couldn't have said it any better. And the Bush wackers they have in the house now are as bad as the ones that left, because everyone thinks they are better? Both parties are bad and they just want more power and money at our expense. Bob


Cowboy Joe    Posted 11-19-2002 at 18:10:26       [Reply]  [No Email]
I agree with your post REA.


DeadCarp    Posted 11-19-2002 at 12:59:06       [Reply]  [No Email]
Yup except the government is severely slowed down at the gate Fred, that's what security clearances are for - to protect against pesky Congressmen who hope to turn an oil drip into a political career - no, the average person wouldn't tell what he saw - but always protect yourself against greed! Have you seen any Congressmen or executives offering to share their shady retirement millions with any destitute farmers? :)




007 ***** D.C. How dare You belittle those poor suffer'n retires scrimpun by    Posted 11-19-2002 at 16:26:27       [Reply]  [No Email]
on next ta nuthin compared ta us wealthy,opulant,spendthrifty paluttin farmy type critters......hang yo haid in shame.


Cowboy Joe    Posted 11-19-2002 at 10:04:19       [Reply]  [No Email]
You bet. The crazies in Bush land are at it again.


Randy    Posted 11-19-2002 at 10:59:45       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Careful Cowboy Joe-yer wearin yer liberal tree huggin politics on yer sleeve again. Ya needs ta be thankful that we have a president with the guts to save yer boot scootin' backside from the likes of Bin Lauden. 'Course, we coulda had Al Gore in there and ya'll could sit around holding hands and sing Kumbaya while more planes hit more buildings.


sam    Posted 11-20-2002 at 04:55:53       [Reply]  [No Email]
Better hold tight cause Gw only has a mouth not anything down yonder to carry out his bs


Cowboy Joe    Posted 11-19-2002 at 18:08:25       [Reply]  [No Email]
I'm not a fan of the Republicrats. I vote independent.


Patria / PR    Posted 11-19-2002 at 09:57:17       [Reply]  [Send Email]
We just received some fund from usa for terrorism fighting.We have the Roosvelt Roads Navy Base here:-). Some of that money will be pocketed by the well-to-do politicians anyway. Seem like they are using it to survilance one another:-).
Patria


tomatolord    Posted 11-19-2002 at 08:57:50       [Reply]  [Send Email]
If the govt could really keep a secret I would be worried. However, they do tend to be bungling idiots most of the time.

the secret court was setup so that the govt could ask for wiretaps etc on people that if they found out about the suspicion would bolt the country.

originally the information found in these wiretaps was against the law to use in court.

now the one appeals court said no they could use the evidence.

However, HOW secret is the secret court if we are talking about it on the internet?? It is one of the lead stories on CNN - how secret can it be??

Also

They have passed the graham leach bliley act - which holds financial instituitions accountable to secure your private information - if someone accesses the information or they do not protect your information you can sue them

They passed the same thing in healthcare called Hippa -



kraig WY Just my opinion but    Posted 11-19-2002 at 07:57:36       [Reply]  [No Email]
I think its stuppid, or over reacting. Course where I live I don't think terrorist are a problem (Arabs kinda stick out), nor do I have to worry about being profiled (sheriff's afraid my wife will cut off his cookies and coffee). How ever I don't see how the whole deal can help but affect my pocket book. Then again the government will always find something else to spend my tax dallors on.


LH    Posted 11-19-2002 at 07:53:06       [Reply]  [No Email]
The erosion of our rights and liberties and all this so called homeland defense garbage are beggining to terrify me. Big brother is here, and before long we will all be implanted with microchips which track our every movment and record all conversations. Myabe thats extremeist thinking on my part, but I dont think its out of the realm of possibility the way things are going.


glen sw wi    Posted 11-19-2002 at 07:51:46       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Wire taps will still need to be approved by a judge. A great deal of personal info is already collected and available on the net. Those cards that you get at stores,supposedly to get discount are nothing more than a means to gather info on your purchases. I find the info on my personal purchases gathered by non governmental organization more of a loss of privacy than that which will be gathered only after approved by a judge. Like the previous poster - they would be put to sleep viewing my records.


bill bva    Posted 11-19-2002 at 09:47:55       [Reply]  [No Email]

and who is judges ? usually lawyers and polititians . do ineed to say more?


Jim (Mi)    Posted 11-19-2002 at 07:33:09       [Reply]  [No Email]
That is a tough one. It seems our civil liberties are definately being reduced since 9-11. Things that would have never flied with the American people are being accepted as long as it is stated under a terrorism deterent. Here in
Michigan they are trying to pass a law to randomely stop an individual and question them like at the border, in the name of stopping terrorism from coming from Canada. The flip side argument is hey, if you have nothing to hide, it is no problem. But we are a society that likes to give our criminals a chance. A lot of things have been stirred up since 9-11.


Les...Hey Jim    Posted 11-19-2002 at 12:04:55       [Reply]  [No Email]
Please point to one liberty that has been eroded since 9/11.


Maggie/TX    Posted 11-19-2002 at 21:53:29       [Reply]  [No Email]
The right to fly on an airplane with your doggone nail clippers in your makeup/shaving bag!


Les    Posted 11-20-2002 at 02:29:05       [Reply]  [No Email]
That's right in the constitution, ain't it. Sounds pretty serious to me.


Maggie/TX    Posted 11-20-2002 at 05:02:38       [Reply]  [No Email]
Oh I'm sorry. I thought you said "Liberty", not "Constitutional right."

It is the fact that the nail clipper thing is so petty as far as national security is concerned that irks me about it and also the fact that I don't travel anywhere without 'em. I also keep a nail file in my purse at all times and I know they won't let me on a plane with that either, so they have erroded two of my liberties right there.


Burrhead    Posted 11-20-2002 at 16:57:07       [Reply]  [No Email]
Maggie the nail clippers aint a small issue. Just like there is no such thing as barely pregnant there aint no sitch thing as unbiased enforcement of laws.


Hogman******* Right on Ma'am    Posted 11-19-2002 at 23:43:04       [Reply]  [No Email]
Funny how things happen,a real nice friend of mine voted for that bill and tha next time goin thru airport security screamed like an eagle cause tha realy fancy,nice pair of jewled clippers was a weapon'n had ta go. They did make arrangements for em ta be shipped home.....but.....
I went thru a school on what Ya can make a weapon out of. We busted beer mugs,bottles,used nylon hose(great for snatchin a body without no yellin) good little killer too,hammers,belts, sticks,hatchets,junk but nary a pair'a nail clippers!


Grove r Canada????    Posted 11-19-2002 at 08:06:44       [Reply]  [No Email]
Why are we suspect when it comes to "allowing" terorists into the US?? are not the checkpoints along the border manned by both US and Canadian officials?? Seems to me that whenever the US has needed, Canada has always been right there, shoulder to shoulder.....sorry if I seem a little annoyed, but the border between us does not mean we are not of the same mind....let the gubbermints hassel and wrangel amoungest themselves....but lets not us the people follow suit....we can and will get along just fine without that political nonsense......my appologies again, have a gooder, R.E.L.


ger wow    Posted 11-19-2002 at 11:55:10       [Reply]  [No Email]
did you start all this , congulats your getting better lol


Bob/Ont    Posted 11-19-2002 at 10:15:59       [Reply]  [No Email]
You really got'em going now Grover.
Later Bob


Clem    Posted 11-19-2002 at 09:10:19       [Reply]  [No Email]
You're absolutely right, grove r! The US and Canada have been strong allies for well over a hundred years. Canadians are serving in Afghanistan, too, shoulder to shoulder with the US.


Jim (Mi)    Posted 11-19-2002 at 09:08:36       [Reply]  [No Email]
Whoa there Grove r. I am by no means saying that the Canadian people are terrorists. PLEASE do not misinterpret
me. My family is Canadian, I am a frequent guest of Canada, and I truely have the upmost respect for the Canadian people. I am a firm supporter on other sites defending Canadians who took heat after 9-11 because they were asking questions. You boys have always been along side us in any conflict we have stuck our noses in. But the truth be told that alot of people enter into the U.S. thru Canada. Dearborn, just outside of Detroit has the biggest concentration of Arabic people in the U.S. There was a arrest last month in New Baltimore in my parents hometown. I guy was bringing people over thru his semi in the back thru sarnia. The Blue Water Bridge is a very lenient customs bridge (Believe me I have first hand experience) and this guy was a local traveler. A military officer noticed a lot of people coming out of the back of a semi, and immediately notified the local authorities. The police arrested him and sent hi to the INS who is prosecuting him on illegal immigrant smuggling. They immediately deported the 9 individuals. Their was an arrest of an Arabic gentlemen in detroit who had ties to Al Queda, who had plans on the Windsor Bridge and Tunnel, and pictures on the U.N. & Renaissance buildings in detroit. He entered thru Canada. Also, it is very easy to cross unexpected thru the St. Clair River. Just get a boat and go. Heck our beagle got out once and crossed the river thru the ice dam in the river. I asked my friend once who was from Italy why so many people choose to stay in Michigan. He said the reason his family chose here was if there was an immigration problem, they could quickly cross over the border. I truely meant ZERO disrespect to the great people of Canada. If you took it that way I truely am sorry.


cowgirlj    Posted 11-19-2002 at 09:51:52       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Seem to me that if customs were being lenient, it was the US customs upon entering the US that were being lenient. Canada is an open immigration Country. Much to the displeasure of many Canadians. Our government seems to allow anyone anyone to immigrate here, and then has no qualms supporting them with our social programs at the tax payer's expense. As a Canadian I am very torn with the accusations that we took over the Sept 11. I have resided in both Canada and the US, and will soon be moving back to the US. I hope our two Countries will always work side by side and remain allies.
J


ger    Posted 11-19-2002 at 11:46:49       [Reply]  [No Email]
i too was upset at what was being said just after 9-11 but it wasn,t here that they took there flight training an were in the US for some time , but anyway you have to consider the sources when things like that are said just as now you have some of our government people crying about racial profiling at the border by the US customs , well hello it was people from the middle east that flew those planes an i haven,t seen to many to many other people having problems and its their country an they have a right to protect it , an our government is to lenient when it comes to immigration, an once they get in they have more rights than should be allowed(you CAN,T get them out)look at some of the criminals who land in vancouver an use every tatic to stay for years an often disappear some time to the US. i have friends in the states that i think are some of the greatest people i have ever met an despite what people like PAT BUCHANAN or other s say they will still be the greatest an the way i look at it were fourtunate to have each other , we could be living next door to IRAQ, wow time to get off my soap box lol . later ger


Jim (Mi)    Posted 11-19-2002 at 09:57:51       [Reply]  [No Email]
Canada is not a lenient as you might think. If you cross over thru Windsor, and look semiwhat suspicious, or do not have a birth certificate, you will be stopped. I avoid that crossing like the plague. I went to Niagara falls a few months back, and got stopped twice crossing back into Canada. We stayed in Buffalo. Now cross at Sarnia, or Chatham, I have been stopped twice out of about 200 times. And I only need my D.L. there.


ger    Posted 11-19-2002 at 13:22:39       [Reply]  [No Email]
we git the govt. right on them two crossings , jim, we,ll smarten them up now you,ll really have a tough tome gittin through . thanks lol


ger    Posted 11-19-2002 at 11:53:38       [Reply]  [No Email]
hey JIM , there only concerened on what your bringing into the country( IF YOUR A CANADIAN ) you see they want to make sure they get their GST tax , THE PST tax , an any DUTY they can collect for the government, anything else is just gravey if they catch something


Jim (Mi)    Posted 11-19-2002 at 12:01:29       [Reply]  [No Email]
:>) You guys sure do get the taxes over thee. My uncle actually orders his fuel for his planes from the states, and has it brought in all the way thru Michigan up to his outfit in Elliot Lake. That is cheaper than buying the fuel with taxes in Canada. One nice thing is our currency has great exchange. It is like having monopoly money. The border canadian cities sure bend over backwards for us to spend our money. :>) One really nice thing is when I used to bar hop when I was 19-21 over there is your different color money. I would just ask the waitress what color I owe her when I was in my elebriated stage. :>)


ger    Posted 11-19-2002 at 13:28:49       [Reply]  [No Email]
yup them border bussiness know how an who to sell to we get stuff alot cheaper when they see our canadian credit cards but when they see that american money,well, nuff said, an yup they had lots of complaints about money , i still have a hard time when paying with american money, an im sober , so we got colored money now we don,t have that problem an no racials issues with it either lol


ger    Posted 11-19-2002 at 12:39:15       [Reply]  [No Email]
you know that cheap fuel , well in all likely hood that came from here anyway , you get 60 per cant of your oil from canada, 12 % from the middle east


Ron/PA    Posted 11-19-2002 at 08:15:08       [Reply]  [No Email]
Kind of curious,, terrorists comming from Canada, Seems to me that the country to our south sent alot more, I mean florida!!
I ain't lookin for a country to blame, unless it is in the middle east and has provided money and or arms to these bustards!!!
Then again I still can't root for the maple leafs, against my flyers!
just the ramblings of an old goat
Ron


Pitch    Posted 11-19-2002 at 08:41:08       [Reply]  [No Email]
Yes I am worried. This is not the same country I grew up in. We seem to be losing a lot of rights under the guise of fighting terrorism. Before anyone starts taking pot shots at my patriotism because I refuse to follow the Shrub and A*scroft in lockstep I want to say that my family has been woking class country folks on this continent since 1634 and every generation has served this country in the Armed forces I served 4 yrs in the USMC and have almost thirty years of federal sevice and my own son continues this tradition today with the US Army. Face it terrorism by definition is random acts of violence designed to upset the population of an area. There is absolutely nothing goverment can do to prevent a random act. As terrible as it is we probably will continue to take an occaisonal hit from these buttheads. on the plus side of the equasion, in a country with this great a land mass and this large a population your indivual odds for not being a victim are pretty good. So just keep your eyes open tighten your personal security try to stay away from likely potential targets but most of all let your elected so called represenatives know in no uncertain terms that you do not want or need their inefectual attempts at protecting you at the cost of what my family and millions of others have fought and died for over the past three hundred years.


Maggie/TXWell said, Pitch!    Posted 11-19-2002 at 22:05:51       [Reply]  [No Email]
very well said, indeed!


Les    Posted 11-19-2002 at 12:09:42       [Reply]  [No Email]
As I said to Jim above, point to one right or liberty that has gone away since 9/11. Please.
I think your definition of terrorism leaves a little to be desired as well. "Random acts"???? How about DELIBERATE acts. There was nothing random about what happened on 9/11/01.


Grove r    Posted 11-19-2002 at 08:24:42       [Reply]  [No Email]
Big 10-4 Ron [still like that name], I can't cheer the maple leafes either....now if yer talkin Esks, [Edmonton Eskimos], might be I'll listen....fer a little while anyway......have a gooder R.E.L.


ger    Posted 11-19-2002 at 08:41:52       [Reply]  [No Email]
hey what about thos canucks an flames . well maybe the canucks lol


Jim (Mi)    Posted 11-19-2002 at 09:11:08       [Reply]  [No Email]
Why root for anyone but the best? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GO WINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :>)


ger    Posted 11-19-2002 at 09:19:41       [Reply]  [No Email]
ya there pretty good an i do like them steveie Y is from just down the road from me about 60 miles, but ya gotta feel sorry for the flames don,t ya nawww lol


ger    Posted 11-19-2002 at 09:33:43       [Reply]  [No Email]
barring any major injuries i think the wings could be cup champs for a long time


Jim (Mi)    Posted 11-19-2002 at 09:47:22       [Reply]  [No Email]
With Fisher and Yzerman out, the season could get hectic. Plus Lewis has a lot of experience with the system, but is no mind game player like Bowman. Hopefully Steve comes back healthy, the team is just different without him. Fortunately as always Fedorov has been taking the reigns. With the rookies stepping up like Zetterburg, Kuznetsov, and Pavel Datsuk, the future definately looks good, but everything hinges on Yzerman.


Jim (Mi)    Posted 11-19-2002 at 09:25:02       [Reply]  [No Email]
I feel sorry for nobody but my hometeam in sports.:>) Me and my wife are huge Wings fans. We go to quite a few games. Have been to many Flames games, and I feel sorry we only beat them by a goal or two. :>) Oh yeah, they are better than just pretty good, they are the BEST.LOL


ger    Posted 11-19-2002 at 09:32:06       [Reply]  [No Email]
i get a kick out of calgary though an the canucks too after the game they interview the players an coach , all those towells you see them waving all the time should be called crying towells , some of the reasons they have for the way they play , the money there making an they want to tax us to support them no way , if they put some work into their play , they might be more successful. my favorite is when the wings whip colorado just love it especially if its in the playoffs lol


Jim (Mi)    Posted 11-19-2002 at 09:43:49       [Reply]  [No Email]
I have to agree, those are the best games. Actually I enjoy the last regular season game between the two teams. The brawl is always good, and the goalie scrum is perfect. 97 Vernon kicked Roy's butt. 98 Osgood drew with ROY.
Hasek well tha was boring. Cujo should rearrange Roy's face. :>) the rivalry temperment sure has died down with Lemieux gone. And Colorado has traded alot of their Wings scrapper. One thing that really fares well for the wings is Drury is a huge overtime goal scorer against the wings and his sorry butt is gone. I loved McCarty had 5 regular season goals, and 4 playoff goals against Roy. LOL


ger    Posted 11-19-2002 at 09:56:27       [Reply]  [No Email]
i like M c Carthy he knows his role but plays well too an as a scrapper he doesn,t pick who he,ll take on , like some of the so called tough guys do , he, ll stand up to them all , an cujo he another story , best in the league bar none , toronto,s loss dury is with the flames now , hes doin good with them , but i don,t think they play as a team an their coach doesn,t know how to get them too, the team ,s i also like to see the wings do a number on is the fyyers an especially the muilti million dollar, so called super stars the rangers . i think one of the reason i like the wings is their good enough to beat teams like i mentioned but i think scotty when he was there instilled a good work ethic in them an there a working mans team someone we can relate too an their good enough to kick the so called super star loaded teams butt lol . later ger


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