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Are we learning?
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DeadCarp    Posted 11-20-2002 at 18:02:38       [Reply]  [No Email]
I know some here regard me with a caution, and i'd be the last to discourage you. :) I hope you guys will bear with me cuz it seems like i bring up awkward issues sometimes, so let me say first that this isn't against anybody, just trying to sort out my own outdated way of looking at things.
***********************
I think we're all prejudiced, one way or another, whether we like to believe it or not, okay?
Well, before the internet, i didn't know anybody in Slovakia, heck i didn't even know were it was. So if our gov't had got goofy and started dropping bombs over there or something, i wouldn't have paid much attention. But NOW, my first thought would be "Oh Jeez, whereabouts?" cuz we CAN'T mess around with my buddy Jano who has 3 kids and works in his Dad's bakery! So the internet already had changed me some.......

Now closer to home - when i found out Minnetonka
mocassins weren't made here, i felt cheated and quit carrying them in the gift shop. Well, turns out they're made in the US alright - in Puerto Rico, for crying out loud!

So why did i change brands? I guess to somehow protect the livelihood of my kids and grandkids etc, right? But here's the catch: Thru the internet, I have now met Patria, and think you'll all agree she's pretty nice. Why on earth would i NOT care about the livelihood of HER kids and grandkids? Of course i would! See what i mean?

And it's all from visiting on the net. I think if we let this thing open our eyes a little bit at a time, we'll slowly come to realize that we're ALL in the same boat, we all have hopes and dreams, and i think this medium will help us end up with a better world. For everybody's descendents. Comments?




Brad in IN    Posted 11-21-2002 at 11:45:36       [Reply]  [No Email]
I spent three months this year in an academy with fellows from all over the world. I found the time spent with them more enriching than the classroom education.
I found that we have more in common than differences. I also came to appreciate the blessings we have here in the U.S. compared to many other Countries and have no shame in my patriotism. The most pleasurable times were spent taking them on day trips and showing them parts of the U.S. they only had the opportunity before to see on TV or movies.
Yes we are in the same boat, as you say. Many of them have returned to their homelands and are directly involved in hunting down the terrorists that we are seeing on news reports from around the world.
Though I don't like to give credit to the previous President, the bombing operations in Bosnia was necessary and effective. I have been told that the U.S. has been held in high regard, and the people know darn well that NATO and the UN are not who brought an end to the horror that had been allowed the happen there.


WallSal55    Posted 11-21-2002 at 10:53:54       [Reply]  [No Email]
Well, here is my perspective (I am 47.) I believe
we can all have prejudices and stereotypes. We
just sometimes have to work on them to overcome
them; put them in proper perspective.
During Vietnam, I was a young girl (11-13).
I really didn't understand it all; and actually
blocked a lot of it out in order to cope. I have
always felt that it's governments that have war;
not the little guy in the bakery; milking a cow;
etc.
When I was 18, I inherited $800 from a great aunt. I decided to take that money along with
my summer wages and go to Italy with a Latin Club.
(The great aunt liked to travel to warm climates for health reason in winter {perhaps SAD?} )

When we arrived in Rome, the plane was surrounded
w/men w/machine guns (to ward off terrorism). 1974
We saw buildings in Rome with the shell holes still in the walls from WW II. The Sistine Chapel, Naples, Tivoli, vineyards, Coliseum
Mt. Vesuvius, and the spot where Ceasar stood,
where the vestal virgins were locked up against
their will (can't remember if that's to make them
behave or for when they didn't behave and were to be killed) After this trip, the world suddenly
seemed smaller. The people of Italy were of
several ethnic influences of surrounding countries, and many were nice, a few jerks.
Just getting out of our comfort zone, experiencing new things, puts a lot in perspective. And hey, anyone can agree or disagree with me.
I learned something new today. I thought moccassins were made in Minnesota!


Ron/PA    Posted 11-21-2002 at 09:39:09       [Reply]  [No Email]
Man this is worse than the CB radio in NYC, I travel most of the east coast, and deliver to folks of all races, colors, religions, and backgrounds. I JUST CAN'T PUT ATTITUDE TO ANY BACKGROUND!!!!! Having said that, I meet lots of folks I don't like, I meet way more folks that I do like, any one of them can be of any ethnicity at all, if they are jerks, they are jerks!
I just can't believe that anyone could find a problem at a synod meeting????(grin) try coming from a community of 400 and a church membership of 50, with less than 20 in regular attendance,,, talk about feeling like a red headed step child!!!
Lynch, lighten up a little, it's only life and you will never get out of it alive, and yes some of us could appreciate the view your dad had,, he ain't alone.
Now getting off my soapbox I really gotta complain about a member of this board,, it just ain't right that Patria is allowed to post them winter time pix of a warm, beautiful, sunset on a beach while I'm shivering! I know that she's doing this just to undermine the snowmobile industry,, She's also trying to shut down the snow tire industry,, It just ain't right!
Now if all of you folks from the cold weather states would like to take up a collection, I would be more than happy to go down there for the month of january and have a talk with her husband!
I can't talk to wimmen cause they scare me (just ask EIEIO, but I would be more than happy to go there and verify all the great food she talks about, as well as the beaches, sun, sand, heat, and other assorted stories we have been told!
I know it's a sacrafice but I'm willing make it for all of you.
Send money and airline tickets to
Ron, #1 Poverty patch, Hooterville, Pa.
PS. Patria, please set me up in a beach front lot,(I'll bring a tent)
Ron


cowgirlj    Posted 11-21-2002 at 08:05:41       [Reply]  [Send Email]
DeadCarp you sure stirred up some conversation here! It gladdens my heart when I hear people have changed their outlook and prior negetive opinions regarding their fellow man/woman. Perhaps we should all redirect our patrism to the heavens above and away from the propeganda and garbage our governments and medias would have us believe, to justify their corruptness and greed. Could you imagine a world where all people were united and refused to fight each other?
J


Ana - glad I read this post    Posted 11-21-2002 at 07:58:32       [Reply]  [No Email]
You have hit on a very good topic and very close to my heart. I am so glad that this particular forum has people that are so diverse, can discuss even politics, and yet not get mad, defensive, or nasty. So many people can't discuss their differences. I have lived long enough to be quite opinionated, but can still listen to others' opinions, and even sometimes change my way of thinking because theirs made more sense! We are all in the same boat---called EARTH.


big fred    Posted 11-21-2002 at 07:55:01       [Reply]  [No Email]
Didn't need the internet for me to take the Iran-Iraq war back in the '80's personally. I had been in grad school and was sitting at lunch one day with some classmates. There was a election coming up, and me and an Iranian, a Chinese, and a Nigerian were discussing the candidates. I told them I was so disgusted I wasn't even gonna vote. Man, did I get an earful! After they got done with me, I realized how precious the right to vote was, haven't missed a regular election since. And the Iran-Iraq war? Well, Kooross Dabirien, my Iranian friend, was graduating, I asked what his plans were, he said "I'm going home to fight in the war, and if I survive, I hope to get a job in the oil industry". Never did hear if he made it.


Patria / PR    Posted 11-20-2002 at 23:37:49       [Reply]  [Send Email]
DeadCarp
To start with I have to say that my knees are trembling with fear:-), heard some rummors about your akward character alright:^( just kidding.
Yeap, you're sooo right about the greatness of this internet toy. I have friends from all over the world; I even took it to the extremes and married one of them, from Holland. Before I met him, my computer wizard was from Australia. I could go on and on. But what am I saying, you all know about friendship over this cable.
Prejudice..hm, I would love to think I don't know what it is, but even when I can honestly say that this one it's not in my dictionary somehow, somewhere I've felt it, hm, let's see, yeah, maybe because i'm too short or too tall, or the color of my skin is too light or too dark, my eyes are too green or too brown, why not? , because i'm from South America, from the USA or the Far East, or even from PR, hehe can you imagine??:-),not to mention because i'm a catolic or protestant.Burrhead mentioned some religions I hadn't even heard of!! Prejudice is everywhere and in every form. Am I to worry about it? Am I to contribute to make it worse and therefore find myself and the ppl I love in another war? I'm worried.Don't wan't another war. But what can we do at this point we are in right now? I guess we could be friends...to start with. Maybe that could help.
And DC, we have hundreds of factories, of many industry clasifications due to competitive labor costs,affordable buildings and land,efficient infrastructure,and of course, a perfect location.
And on top of all Tax Incentive or tax-free.
So I guess that's why the Minnetonka Mocassins are being made in PR. For now, I don't think this will last much longer,things are getting pretty nasty here with this war between the two mayor political parties. Some of the industries are 'eloping' to Santo Domingo. Do you know which company is making them? Let me know please.
Wow..it's late, 3:41am, my sleeping habit is really changing.
See you later ppl
Patria


DeadCarp    Posted 11-21-2002 at 09:30:05       [Reply]  [No Email]
Hi Patria - i think it would just be Minnetonka (they used to be in Minnesota but the state is tax-happy) and i have a favor to ask - do you know of any reputable online PR newspapers? When we get snowed-in, it's always reassuring to glance world headlines and read an article or 2. Here's some papers from my current list -

Singapore seems to find ways to make their diverse population work together - http://www.singaporenews.com/

And Australia discusses world issues we don't even get to hear about - (Sydney) http://www.smh.com.au/
(Melbourne) http://heraldsun.news.com.au/



Patria / PR    Posted 11-21-2002 at 11:01:40       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Hello again DeadCarp, it's funny, but I've been trying to get the mocassins website through differents search engines, they all take me to Republica Dominicana. Just a few minutes ago tryied it in puertoricowow, Main Page->Business & Economy-> Industry/Company Directory->Select Category from List,under Shoe Mfr and there's this Tonka Footwear Co. Inc., just steps from where I live ,could this be it? anyway I'm sending you the link for the site about PR, it's really good, in my oppinion,quite informative.

It's a shame that our daily english newspaper The Star,is not online yet.
Thanks for the newspapers links, I get mine from this link, www.ipl.org , and my mood will decide from where will I read this time:-)

Among my list of prayers is thanking the lord for allowing me to take part of this internet thing/ toy:-)




Dan G/Soganofla    Posted 11-20-2002 at 21:07:24       [Reply]  [No Email]
You're darned right. We are all prejudiced. If you put two unknown guys of obvious ethnicity in a ring, and draw a crowd from the same two races, the audience members will invariably pull for the contestant with the same background as themselves. Of course, there will probably be a better fight in the bleachers, than in the ring.

This gives me the chance to bring up an interesting, new aquaintance of mine. Last summer, I started buying my cigarettes at a little discount smoke shop. The guy that runs it is obviously of the Arabic persuasion, but comes off as a regular American type fellow. I was curious about him, especially after 9/11, but didn't want to seem that I was quizzing him about it, so I kept my mouth shut. A couple of months ago, I finally asked him about his origins, and found that he is a Palestinian, native of Jerusalem. His parents and siblings still live there, and he maintains regular contact with them. Since broaching the subject, I have had some lively and fascinating discussions with him, relating to the political and racial conflicts over there, as well as the ethnic concerns that we both face on a daily basis, here. It now takes me an average of 30 minutes to buy a carton of cigs, and I always come away with a fresh perspective. Such a deal, huh?


Maggie/TX    Posted 11-20-2002 at 21:16:23       [Reply]  [No Email]
Same here, Dan. The nearest store is run by a family from Pakistan. They've been here for 6 years, but not long before 9/11 they moved most of their family here. They said there was "bad things" going on over there and they didn't want to be a part of it and besides that, they really liked living here. They are really fine people and knowing them makes me worry about what is happening in Pakistan. I hope nothing happens to their elders still there who are either too old to move or won't move. And I worried about their safety after 9/11 for fear they would be met with racial profiling or just plain meanness from some of the locals. I think their store holds the record around here for how many American flags were flown over any one establishment during the months following 9/11. :)


Maggie/TX    Posted 11-20-2002 at 20:58:59       [Reply]  [No Email]
DC, I think you are absolutely right! The Internet can be a great means to get to know people from different walks of life and even other countries and promote understanding of each other and sometimes even caring about each other. Now, this will only work with folks who get ON the Internet and who truly do seek understanding.

If we are allowed the time for the internet to reach even the gung-ho dudes in the tents over there, some might even come around eventually, but there are some who will never be reached by reason or logic.

The Internet can help people to understand each other only if they are not filled with hate to start with. People filled with hate, who go around chanting, "Death to the Infidels," are probably not going to go to a chat room to try to understand the real culture of our country.

I found a site on another message board recently where they posted it for the pictures of Iraq, but it also has a message board. I have gone there just to read what they think and it is amazing! Some of them really think that our ancestors got kicked out of England to start this country! They do not understand the concept! Check this out for a real eye-opener on how they think:


DeadCarp    Posted 11-20-2002 at 21:31:02       [Reply]  [No Email]
Interesting message board Maggie! Thanks! In truth, i couldn't tell you who Saddam replaced either. or how he got to power. The curious thing i remember about the Gulf War was the CIA supporting, then pointing out, then abandoning the Kurds when the lead started flying. Want confusion? Try to understand the CIA -- :)



Grove r    Posted 11-20-2002 at 19:04:45       [Reply]  [No Email]
Well.... I ain't a bit predudiced!!!! I hate em all equaly.....whoever they is!!! Seriously, {now there is a first], you are right on the money there, DC, I have learned a lot from this forum alone....have learned how each of you view situations, how you feel about different subjects, and have developed close relationships with each and every one of you by finding out what makes you laugh and what makes you angry.....and you know what?....pretty dang close to the way I feel.....
and I hope that I have made the same impressions on you that you have made on me....Peurto Rico?? just down the road....Patria? right next door....and a mighty fine neighbor, too!! And the rest of you are all right here too!! doesn't seem as though we live that far apart, at all.... seems like I could just jump in my vehicle and drive over the hill for a visit.....and that is surely what I would dearly love to do, just like Bob and Judy, yesterday.....I had a real good time showing them around, wish that I could do that to each and every one of you.....and that is how this here "innertube" has opened up the world a little bit for me.......as I told LH in a post below, come on in, the door is always open.....thanks for letting me ramble, have a gooder, R.E.L.


Patria / PR    Posted 11-20-2002 at 23:59:15       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Grove r: "all equally"? Thank goodness for the screens between us..
and the 'not sooooo down the road' ocean.
Patria:-)

PS: It's great to 'see' you, everytime.


Grove r    Posted 11-21-2002 at 05:07:16       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Thanks Patria, I enjoy your company immensly, always look forward to your posts...have a gooder, R.E.L.


Hogman*********** Astute commentary Ya makes there D C    Posted 11-20-2002 at 18:22:52       [Reply]  [No Email]
Recon a body would need ta ponder all of it but just off tha top'a that tete I'd say Ya speak a lot of truth......

I admit ta bein prejudus when it comes ta biased critters as don't see things tha same as.......
Good post D C !


Otterpilot    Posted 11-20-2002 at 18:55:16       [Reply]  [No Email]
Wal,//DC I think yer onta sumpthin there.I'm not any kinda peacenik fershure,but I can realize that its the politicos that seem to be the ones who have trouble gettin along and unless you take the time to kearn(Knowledge is Power)you only hear the drivel your leaders allow you to hear.Its quiite interestin,when something happens,to go online to British,Scandanavian,South American etc newssites and get a totally different slant on things.This is why many nations fight the internet,and other outside news sources.Nephew spent some time in "Russia" on a student program a couple years back,living with a family there.Not that many yrs prior the "common folk" there were taught that all americans were gun totin gangster killers preying on each other and hoping to conquer the Soviets and make them slaves,Also that we(US)killed and ate babies in religious rites etc,etc.These folks had NO other input,and though they wanted war NO more than any other folks,they were determined not to be overrun by US savages.I'm relatively sure the Iraqui,Afghan,Arab etc common folk don't want war any more than most Americans or Brits.They just want to exist and live their lives,raise their families like all folks.Myself I try to live inoffensively,and get by as best I can.Net friends in several other countries seem to have the same feelings and problems we do.Maybe we need to get heavily back into Olympics etc and stay ta heck outta other peoples politics,culture and religion.Okay I'll go quietly.Nurse,it's time fer my pills.


Burrhead    Posted 11-20-2002 at 18:20:29       [Reply]  [No Email]
That's exactly right DeadCarp. No ifs ands or buts about it.

Maybe we can get our gubermint folks to quit bombing Patria's neighborhood.


Patria / PR    Posted 11-20-2002 at 23:41:02       [Reply]  [Send Email]
yeah Burrhead, the Vieques S_ _ _T , really nasty.
Patria


Lynch in E.TX    Posted 11-20-2002 at 18:32:38       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Nobody ever got bombed by the USA without a darn good reason.


Burrhead    Posted 11-20-2002 at 18:46:42       [Reply]  [No Email]
Patria is our dear friend who lives in Puerto Rico.

I realize we are supposed to be on the look-out for any and everybody that aint anglo and wearing a white stockman cowboy hat with roper boots but I don't think PR is in the evil axis.


Lynch in E.TX    Posted 11-21-2002 at 08:00:48       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I also don't think there's any full-scale bombing directed at civilians in PR.


**Vieques/Marines Outlook**    Posted 11-21-2002 at 11:37:31       [Reply]  [Send Email]
You are right Lynch[I like your nick], there are no "full-scale" bombing "directed" at civilians.
I'll post this link for anybody interested in a more indepth and detailed info for their reasons for wanting a stop to the marines maneuvers in Vieques.
Have a good day

PS: please let me know if the link doesn't work.


Lynch in E.TX    Posted 11-20-2002 at 18:19:52       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I think that makes alot of sense, but (and there's always a but) there are always folks that don't want to get along with anyone except themselves ( i.e. some of the middle east ). It's human nature to keep an eye out. People can get along with other people...Religions can't get along with other religions.


Otterpilot w/tongue in cheek    Posted 11-20-2002 at 19:03:27       [Reply]  [No Email]
I dunno bout that,we got 9+ assorted churches in a tiny town and assorted others in surrounding area an we ain't had a religious war here since the Lutherns whupped the Methodists in the softball tourney back in 77.


Lynch in E.TX    Posted 11-21-2002 at 08:07:02       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Because in this country the christians don't fight the christians...almost every war was started over religion...from the crusades on...Just look at those fundamentalist islamics...killing people for allah...I don't know where y'all live but that crap don't fly around here.


Burrhead    Posted 11-20-2002 at 19:25:00       [Reply]  [No Email]
We have religious unity in my area too.

Our official population is 189 in this community and there are 5 different versions of Baptist, 1 Assembly Of God, 1 Pentecost, 1 Catholic, 1 Church Of Christ, 1 Church Of Christ In God, and 1 Nondenominational Chapel.

One thing is fer shur. Us Huhmurikuns is united in our own religion.


Lynch in E.TX    Posted 11-21-2002 at 08:10:36       [Reply]  [Send Email]
In the newspaper here there are 42 (yes 42) churches listed in my small town of about 3000 or less.


DeadCarp    Posted 11-20-2002 at 20:54:58       [Reply]  [No Email]
We had 3 Lutheran churches in our little town and i figured that was reasonable, with the triune God and all that. Then they up and built a 4th one! Now it's been awhile since i went to Father, Son and Holy Ghost school, but is there another one? who am i forgetting? heh heh

You know what's weird tho? Everybody from every church around town gets along fine, yet when the Synod meets annually, the Minnesota guys never get to sit at the same table as the neighboring states. When are the bigshots going to lean brotherhood and catch up with the people they represent? Oh well, maybe we was born not good enough - that's why we're still here! :)



Burrhead    Posted 11-21-2002 at 06:23:23       [Reply]  [No Email]
dangit I fergot and left out the Jehovah's Witness church, but it's 12 miles away. Their members just canvass the neighborhood here with them little pamplets.

All in all the folks around here get along fine.

Ever once in a while some outside political wannabee folks from all sides of color and religion passes thru stirring up racial strife but the folks from here just tell them to move on down the line.


Lynch in E.TX    Posted 11-21-2002 at 08:19:23       [Reply]  [Send Email]
My dad was deaf, and he was a Lutheran minister from college until the day he died of cancer at the age of 63...and I know one thing from watching him tend his flock, and that is that alot of christians are the most UNchristian people I've ever met. And my dad spent his years tryin' to change that. Ain't none of you, I doubt, have the first hand knowledge of how a congregation gets along from a pastor's point of view...it ain't pretty.


Burrhead    Posted 11-21-2002 at 16:54:24       [Reply]  [No Email]
I'm glad somebody brought that subject up.

I never was in the clergy but I have served in different offices of the church and seen how underhanded and dirty some christian folks treat the clergyman.

If ye go to some churches ye better watch the lead deacon's wife. Whatever that woman says she wants done you can bet the next bizness meeting it'll be voted in.


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