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Country Discussion Topics
To add your comments to this topic, click on one of the 'Reply' links below.

SUV's
[Return to Topics]

magpie    Posted 11-30-2002 at 15:46:17       [Reply]  [No Email]
I was listening to the Spokane channel the other day, and their seems to be a lot of discussion about SUV's over regular cars. Seems that the non SUV drivers dislike people who drive them. I don't understand the problem except the car drivers feel that the SUV people are rude, poor drivers and that they are gas guzzlers. Well I don't drive an SUV, but I don't see any difference between car and SUV drivers. I also think that the car manufactures are forcing people to go the SUV route, because, unless you are under 5'3" you can't sit upright in a modern car. Also you have to hunker down and practically crawl into it. What do some of you folks think?


Dave 2NJ    Posted 12-01-2002 at 16:13:41       [Reply]  [Send Email]
It's an issue manufactured by the "Environmental Wackos" who have too much time on their hands. They taken the liberal line that SUV's are gas guzzlers and also are dangerous to Hondas and Nissans and Toyotas if they are involved in accidents with SUV's. Duh...... If you were going to be in an accident, would you rather be in a Chevy Tahoe or a Honda Accord?
What is overlooked in all of this liberal political gibberish is the way that SUV's have improved lives for many people who live in rural or remote areas. I know, someone is going to throw the "Soccer Mom" thing at me but so what? Last I knew, a person was free to drive the vehicle of his/her choice, free of interference from "Environmental Wacko" liberals.


Patria / PR***bottom line is....***    Posted 12-01-2002 at 15:53:58       [Reply]  [No Email]
...drive whatever the !@#$%^& you want or HAVE to drive.
I had a Ford Ranger pick up in early 90's , wow how I loved to drive this one!. But we have long rainy seasons. And although it had a nice storage box, or whatever it's called in english, I had to jump in the back when a sudden rain decided to drop by to try to keep everything else from getting wet. Also I'm always the 'taxi driver' for the family. Love to bring with us my dad and mom. And although this one was extended cabin, it wasn't big enough to take everybody to the beach [for instance] or long week end campings. But I was happy to keep it for a few years.

This is when the Dodge Durango suv came into my life. Of course, I fell in love again,hehe.
My 12y/o daughter tought me which botton to use, why and when. It took me some time though. My ex-husband did the down payment and I had to do the painly-monthly-payments.[grin]
But I loved it, I would fill all the seats with family and friends. Some would ask me why would I need the 4w/d , and I would answer.."don't know yet"...until this rainy morning, when we were at my friends beach house for the weekend, everybody took the best parking spots. I had to park on the dirt road. Morning came and it was raining like he!!, I tried to move my car and it just wouldn't , you know the feeling. Sudenly my daughter says "mami, use the 4w/d" So there and then is when I learned the why's and how's of this wonderful feature. I mean, you might not need it every time....right? But it might come handy sooner or later.

Divorce came into the scene, and I had to take care of my every bill, all on my own. Found out that changing my nice suv was in order now.

Bought a Daewoo Lanos. Great little car. It's amazing the things you can do with a small car!! But i'm being extra careful where I park if I'm spending the night elsewhere.

so...what was it I said about 'bottom line' ?
Don't remember, gotta go back up and check it out..



DeadCarp - Daewoo?    Posted 12-01-2002 at 17:05:30       [Reply]  [No Email]
- Daewoo Lanos must be one of those cars that the US isn't permitted to import - or maybe i'm just suspicious - - we tried a Datsun pickup in the 70s, punished the little thing and it's still running! In Australia they had BIG Datsun sedans, trash trucks etc but i found out Detroit hates competition so they bought a piece of legislation to solve the problem. Maybe the internet will let us peek at how bad we're getting screwed by our own bigshots! Not to mention that Detroit HAD seatbelts but Lee Iacoca testified that they'd be too expensive so Congress just swept them under a rug & let accident victims get ejected for another 10 years. Those kinda shady business practices gave me a sour taste for Detroit iron i guess - haven't trusted Congress since Truman was president. :)




Patria / PR    Posted 12-01-2002 at 19:17:48       [Reply]  [Send Email]
You're right, Daewoo won't sell the 2003 models in the usa. But there's more to come.
Found a link, scroll down the page and check the Consumer Guide.


DW    Posted 12-01-2002 at 13:57:36       [Reply]  [No Email]
Hey Magpie!! Hope you and the Mrs. are doing well. We still have yalls pic on our fridge, and I think of you often.


magpie    Posted 12-01-2002 at 17:36:58       [Reply]  [No Email]
Hey DW! How the heck ya doin! I don't check in here as much as I used to but should get more regular. Why don't you drop us a line do you have my new E mail address? I think of you too, wonderin how things are in sunny N.C.


Donna from Missouri    Posted 12-01-2002 at 11:06:01       [Reply]  [Send Email]
My overall-clad, redneck husband is the same nice guy whether he's driving our 1988 Ford pickup (which gets 10 mpg) or our newest car, a 1999 Ford Explorer. He keeps all his vehicles clean and waxed (even the 8 classic tractors). He does not hit other people's cars with his doors. He does occasionally receive a call on his cell phone while driving, but I don't think he's put anyone in danger yet. Before we got the Explorer, we had a 1989 Cadillac, and that didn't change any of his driving habits either. If we can afford the car and the gas, why would anybody care what we drive?


ger/why does it what you drive    Posted 12-01-2002 at 12:41:10       [Reply]  [No Email]
typing with the wrong paw here so bearwith me on this, why does it matter what anybody drives does their vehicle make them a bad person or their house , or their clothes ,total nonsense to dislike someone for what they drive, those who drive gas gullezers pay a tax that tax is used to build an maintain roads now 4x4 ,s don,t need all the smooth paved roads , so the little cars certainly benifit now don,t they , but the SUV driver is still an a$$ because he can afford to drive it, if anything i glad for them at least their new, nothing worse than an old poorly maintained vehicle comming down the highway at ya especially if its driven by someone who has a hate on for everybody just because of their in an old clunker, no i don,t have a new SUV , i drive an 81 gmc 3/4 tonn 4x4 70000 miles on well maintained an the wife has a 93 plymouth , i don,t lose sleep over not having a brand new vehicle or if someone else does if they think they can afford it good for them , im happy with what i have an as far as my truck is concerned i,ll probably keep it for as long as it lasts or i do , especially if it quits falling on my hands (korean jack stands) wont support a chevy truck lol, maybe it the people in the little cars that expect a big rig to get over for them i see it in the wal-mart parking lots all the time, i used to drive professionally an one thing i learned was you don,t put your rig off the road for some A$$ , because you will pay far more than a little car, especially if you have a load pushun you over the bank, later ger


Simple...    Posted 12-01-2002 at 12:08:48       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Jealousy and 'Fairness'...

"It's not fair...Those SUV people will survive a high speed crash...And me, in my Yugo, will be squashed like a bug"

Tough noogies...Life aint fair...Learn it...Know it...Live it...

My 2...

Salmoneye


kraig WY    Posted 12-01-2002 at 09:41:40       [Reply]  [No Email]
Don't drive SUV's cause you can't hook up a goose neck trailer to them. That's the only reason. Got three trucks. Two are Ford HD Diesels, one is a '51 Chev flat bed. Wifes got a little red Chry. Labaron convertable she likes but makes me feel my tail is dragging on the road. Its a good town car cause you can park it. They don't make parking spaces for trucks (extended cabs w/full bed). My two older boys drive SUVs but they don't do any trailering. My daughter thinks they're all trucks and she don't like trucks. (Actually she's the closest kid I got to a Yuppie). What I'm saying is there all differant, and got differant uses. What's good for one ain't necessarily good for another. Except if every one drove big trucks maybe the parking spaces would be bigger. Maybe extra big for when I have to take my 24' trailers to town.


Willy-N    Posted 12-01-2002 at 07:51:47       [Reply]  [No Email]
Not sure if I have a so called SUV but I have two things to drive. One is my 89 Bronco II 4X4 it is fun to drive around, cheap on gas (22 mpg) just don't crank the wheel hard kind of squrily if you do but great to go to town to get the mail and a few things when you need it. The other one is a 79 Chevy 4X4 Full size truck (10 mpg) Love to drive this one! Lift kit, big tires, CD player, Lots of lights to see Cows with in the dark. Great in the snow too! Now I don't bang my doors into other cars but I feel safer in it, feel sorry for the little cars but they could get a bigger one if they wanted to. Have had people in little cars and big cars hit my truck with their doors. One was a Big Caddy and he hit it 3 times in a row (hard) and looked me in the eye and never said anything while I was sitting in it! Never could figure why he did that and went into the store after words?? I got out and kicked a dent in his door and said I'm sorry but he did not hear me. Maybe that was mean but I felt better about it. You should be able to drive what you want it's America the land of the so called free! I don't tell people how big a house they should live it either! Mark H.


DeadCarp    Posted 12-01-2002 at 07:32:20       [Reply]  [No Email]
I think a person likes what they're used to - we went from pickup to a van in '90 and now like it - except for the long first step now that we're getting stiffer. I hitched a ride to the store in my buddy's SUV (well, Kia Sportage) last nite. Good sturdy car, good mileage (20s) for 4WD, 60k warranty & a real frame under it but first i couldn't help bumping my head on the grab bar, then my beer belly wouldn't let me reach the handle to put the seat back, but i managed to find the seatbelt buckle and door handle in the dark. And the heater is great. :)
I'm soon looking for something that fits ME - and the first requirement is that i wanna walk up and sit down, without squirming, like in a kitchen chair. I might add more requirements later. They all run, so what the heck?




magpie    Posted 12-01-2002 at 07:51:58       [Reply]  [No Email]
All the followups were interesting, I do think it's sad that manufacturers can't seem to make a vehicle that is comfortable, easy to drive, and sensibly priced. Wouldn't it be nice to go in and buy a new 55 chev (or whatever) with a 6 cylinder and overdrive.


Hal/WA    Posted 12-01-2002 at 14:10:52       [Reply]  [No Email]
You could, except for the hundreds of government regulations. And people would not be satisfied with the relatively spartan vehicles that were produced in the 50's (or for that matter, 60's and 70's). Even in the 55 Chevy, most were produced with automatics, even if it was the ultimate slushbox, the powerglide. I like the old cars and appreciate their simplicity, but it was hard to get more than about 20 mpg with a 55 Chevy with any transmission and engine, and most got a lot less than that. And I have never seen a 55 Chevy with factory air conditioning.

Most of todays cars have good, effective power brakes, power steering, what would have been considered remarkable handling, air conditioning, good accelleration and mileage in the 20's. And it is very common for a present day car to last 200,000 miles without doing much of anything to it.

The cars of today cost a lot more than they did way back when, but they do so much more. And the new cars are harder to understand and work on, at least for the backyard mechanic. On the other hand, newer cars require so much less tinkering than the old ones.

It really is not fair to compare new vehicles with the old cars. They are both vehicles, but are so vastly different.

If Chevy could legally produce new 55 Chevys with carbuerated 235 6 cylinder engines and 3 speed with overdrive manual transmissions, little drum brakes and everything else exactly the same as produced in 1955, I doubt that they would sell very well, at least after the initial novelty wore off. And I bet the price would be at least $15k. The lawyers would love the new production 55 Chevys, as their handling and brakes would not make it under the driving conditions of today and undoubtedly those problems would generate huge lawsuits.

But if Chevrolet would produce a vehicle that looks like a 55 Chevy, but has the handling, performance, mileage, safety and durability of todays cars, I bet they would sell like hotcakes. Chevy recently quit making Camaros, probably mostly because they were not selling well. They were neat looking, but far too heavy, uncomfortable, impractical and worst of all, troublesome. I think GM could do better.

Ford has brought out a new model that looks somewhat like a 2 seater T-Bird of the middle 50's. However underneath it is a thoroughly modern vehicle. It will be interesting to see how successful the new T-Bird is. They could have a hit on their hands, like Chrysler has with the PTCruiser, which is essentially a small van with prewar, customized styling.


ger / hal /wa    Posted 12-01-2002 at 14:37:26       [Reply]  [No Email]
was reading in the paper last night that chevrolet cavalier an pontiac sunfire are getting 1000 hp from a 2.o litre ,four cylinder engine thats capabale of living in the hostile 9700 r.p.m. racing enviornment or a dodge straus turbo with a 240 hp 2.4 litrefour an a pt curiser with a 300hp 2.4 litre four so the power is there with all the benifits of todays modern cars but the 56 chev still brings back the old days an thats what i think we like about the old cars sure wasn,t the modren convincens, but boys do like their toys still would be nice to fix one up just like we do with the tractors


DeadCarp - there ya go!    Posted 12-01-2002 at 12:58:26       [Reply]  [No Email]
Recently I opened the door on a 57 Chevy, sat behind the wheel, swung in and leaned my elbow on the windowsill - you know what? That thing fit me like a glove - just like they did when i was in school, despite like 100 pounds difference! Now, if they could do that in the 50s without 8-way-adjustable seats and steering wheels, what else have today's car makers forgot?


i be willing to    Posted 12-01-2002 at 12:19:45       [Reply]  [No Email]
buy an old 55 chev with no motor ,


magpie    Posted 12-01-2002 at 13:23:48       [Reply]  [No Email]
Well you know I've thought of that many times, I still occasionaly leaf through hemmings news. But you know, using a 50 old year vehicle for daily transportation, is kind of iffy. When I was younger I had several older cars and trucks 50's models, and it seems like they always needed some sort of maintainence or repair. Now, I do realize the quality of restoration has everything to do with the dependability of an older vehicle, I also believe the newer cars are more dependable. Now if the manufacturers would just build in old fashioned comfort and simplicity with bench seats and not those stupid buckets I would be happy. And how about leaving some of this aerodynamic krap where it belongs, in the trash.


ger    Posted 12-01-2002 at 13:55:05       [Reply]  [No Email]
if you have the time ,money an expertise you can put all that new stuff in a restoration, unfortunately i don,t have any of that but would truly love to try , i know where theres a 56 chev 2 dr ht , but wife says now way, but to give an old car everything like the new ones probably would cost you in the range of 20000 cnd anyway but it would be nice it the car company,s would try , i thought when ford brought their new t bird out that it would start something , but it never, guess we just gotta live with our memories an dreams lol


RC in Pa.    Posted 12-01-2002 at 05:12:26       [Reply]  [No Email]
SUV= YUPPY...WATCH OUT FOR THEM, THEY SURE IN THE *&$% DON'T KNOW HOW TO DRIVE, BUT THEY DO KNOW HOW TO TALK ON THIER CELL PHONES AND BE OFF IN ANOTHER WORLD WHILE BEHIND THE WHEEL.


Salmoneye    Posted 12-01-2002 at 06:06:56       [Reply]  [Send Email]
That applies to all idiots behind the wheel...

Just because someone drives an 'SUV' does not make them an idiot...

And not all SUV drivers are yuppies...The smart locals here will let the yuppies buy the SUVs new, take the hit on depreciation, change the oil every 3000 miles and then will buy it from them when it is 4-5 years old and that 'New Car Smell' is all gone...The yups go buy another new one, and the locals then have a well taken care of, 4WD with less than 100,000 miles and sometimes a drive train warranty left on it for a price they can afford...

Salmoneye...who has never had a 'new' car, and never will...


Jody    Posted 12-01-2002 at 07:53:06       [Reply]  [Send Email]
That's sort of how I got mine (er...wifes)Excursion. 2002 model, repossessed, 7,000 miles and looks like it came off the showroom floor... $15,000 less than retail. Even if I had bought it new it wouldn't make me a yuppie. I am a 220 lb fireman and when I am not fighting fire I am either playing Bluegrass music or working on my little farm.

As for big cars in general, I drive a 1973 flatbed Ford F-350 daily (and have for years). It's huge, it's heavy, and would likely squash a small import like a tin can. It suits me to a T.


Les...Hey Jody    Posted 12-01-2002 at 14:50:34       [Reply]  [No Email]
You sound like my kind of a guy, even if you are a bit on the skinny side ";^)
Where ya from and what Bluegrass instrumink do you play?


Jody    Posted 12-01-2002 at 15:09:55       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I am mostly a banjo player, but also flatpick guitar a lot, and play a little bass and mando. Georgia.


Les...fortunate    Posted 12-01-2002 at 15:51:31       [Reply]  [No Email]
Ping.


Fawteen    Posted 12-01-2002 at 04:13:39       [Reply]  [No Email]
Well, Burrhead will be happy to know that I've finally given in to The Dark Side, and verified my secret yearning to be a yuppie.

I hurt my back bad enough to be bedridden for a week recently. When I got to where I could get around and go back to work, I found that it was just plain painful to get in and out of my car, a Dodge Intrepid. I loved that car, and it got 25 MPG all day, and 35 on the hiway, but it was just too low and the relationship of the seat to the door made it impossible for me to get in and out of anymore.

I sold it to my granddaughter and replaced it with (gulp) a Yuppie Truck. 2001 Dodge Dakota SLT Quad Cab 4WD with everything but bun warmers. Don't know if that technically qualifies as an SUV, but I suspect it does. Got it for under $18,000, and I can climb in and out of it without tears running down my cheeks.

Do I "need" 4WD? Well, no, I got along fine without it in my car, but then again I got caught in a snow/ice storm coming back from camp Friday night, and it sure was nice just to flip a switch and have the extra traction and control.

Do I drive different? I don't think so, other than a big stupid grin that goes with any new vehicle, particularly before the payment book comes in the mail.

The folks that confuse me are the ones that live in parts of the country where it never, or very rarely, snows, never drive on anything but pavement, and go out and blow $30,000 to $50,000 on a 4WD Expedition for one person to ride back and forth to work in. That strikes me as a bit silly. But then, as someone noted below, if they can afford it, and it makes them happy, who am I to say otherwise?

Some folks would say all the money I sunk into my old 1938 Farmall was a waste of resources too.

My wife, fer instance...":^(


gatractorman    Posted 12-01-2002 at 02:04:07       [Reply]  [Send Email]
LOL your right on about the height thing I'm 6'6" and I had to take my wife's '99 Jeep Grand Cherokee in for some warranty work recently, they gave me a Dodge Neon as a loaner, bet I could'a won the Funny Home Video prize if someone hadda been taping it, personally I love SUV's and big trucks '94 F-250, 4x4, ext. cab, long wheel base, 5-speed, Turbo Diesel is my ride, but occasionally I like to ride in something that dont shake my teeth out going out the driveway, personally until someone GIVES me something else to drive they have no say whatsoever in what I spend my money on, I'm satisfied with the fuel mileage on both of them, neither is excessive, I cant see the problem people have with them.


Hal/WA    Posted 11-30-2002 at 19:44:12       [Reply]  [No Email]
SUV can mean a lot of things, from a Suzuki Sidekick to a Hummer. They can be very inexpensive to buy and run or ridiculously costly to obtain and operate. I think that many drive them just for status, but lots of others NEED a closed 4 wheel drive with some hauling capacity to do what they have to do (like getting back and forth to work in snowy conditions) or what they enjoy doing (like skiing).

If you drive a large vehicle, it will take more fuel than if you drive a small vehicle. On the other hand, large vehicles do a better job of protecting passengers in crashes than small vehicles. Lots of people used to drive large station wagons, but they just are not produced anymore. The minivans and SUV's are the station wagons of today.

I don't think it is my job or my government's job (or right) to tell people what they must or must not buy. Live and let live. Let people decide for themselves. If nobody buys a product, soon it will not be produced anymore.

It is annoying to get door dings from vehicles that are a lot higher than your vehicle and which have doors that do not match the height of protective moldings. But it is not the fault of the vehicle--jerks drive all sorts of machines.


Ron/PA    Posted 11-30-2002 at 19:29:09       [Reply]  [No Email]
How can anyone decide what is too expensive and too big, or what eats too much gas?? If I buy it, it ain't too expensive, if it fits me, it ain't too big, and if I can put gas in it, I can afford the gas!!!
When I was just out of high school, I owned a corvett, and no one whacked that puppy more than, them stinkin little honda, toyota, chevet doors!!!
All in all the more the yuppies try to tell me to dump my pick up, the bigger pick up I will buy. And after all, the bigger pickup I buy this year, the bigger pickup the MFG's will build next year.
YEAH FOR THE BIG TRUCK TEAM !!!!
Later
Ron


Ana    Posted 11-30-2002 at 18:56:55       [Reply]  [No Email]
The problem with SUV's and big trucks (other than being too expensive and using too much gas) is that when they swing those big doors open, they wack the side of my vehicle. I've been sitting in my car and they still just let those doors go and wack, another dent! "Oh, I can't help it if the doors are so big and heavy." Burns me up. I thought any three-year-old knew to hang onto the door when some car is sitting right next to it. I never park close to one of those SUV's if I can help it. And it leaves me with a bad attitude toward people that drive them, you know.


HUH.....WHAT DID YOU SAY????....REALLY!!    Posted 11-30-2002 at 21:01:13       [Reply]  [No Email]
So they spend$30K-$40K on a vechile and dont care about there own doors!!! If i saw someone do that I'dwrite down there plate # report them and MAKE THEM PAY !!! Of corse unless they happen to be a bully.......You see this happen and dont report it ????? sounds fishy To me. Get a grip and stop blamin fantoms


ana how can?    Posted 11-30-2002 at 20:59:00       [Reply]  [No Email]
you have a bad attitude toward people just because of what they drive , is it because they can afford to an you can,t, the other day you said you didn,t like cliques, now its SUV owners, is that neighbourly? i would think not, its certainly not country


Nathan(GA)    Posted 11-30-2002 at 19:45:48       [Reply]  [No Email]
Ana, it aint the SUV doors you gotta worry about here. My wife has one and the doors are nowhere near as big as the 2-door sedans from the '70's-'80's. I try to park way out from the crowd. But seems at least one vehicle will always be parked beside me.

I used to have a ragged, rusty Blazer that I didn't take care of. You couldn't pay anybody to scuff it. I guess the damage wouldn't be noticable enough to give them satisfaction!

I like GroveR's way of thinking!


Cowboy Joe    Posted 11-30-2002 at 17:33:14       [Reply]  [No Email]
SUVs SUCK (gas).


Jody    Posted 11-30-2002 at 16:14:33       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I have no problem at all with SUV's. My wife and I are both 5'10', and we have four children. I just bought her an Excursion and I don't know how we made it this far without one. Big families need big cars.


RC in Pa.    Posted 12-01-2002 at 05:14:55       [Reply]  [No Email]
BUY A STATION WAGON !


Dennis    Posted 11-30-2002 at 16:10:17       [Reply]  [No Email]
In Short: "To each his own"
I drive a pickum up truk and I guess I am on equal height so I really don't have a problem. But then again I really don't have a problem with anything other people do, except when it directly affects my family.


Grove r    Posted 11-30-2002 at 17:20:38       [Reply]  [No Email]
Big 10-4 on that, Dennis....I'll go along with that any day!! Reminds me of a few years ago, just after we bought our aerostar....knew we had a winner, with all the flak on tv, those people couldn't say enough bad things about a mini van, suseptable to roll overs, ignition fire hazards, and on and on.....the only reason I can see for it all was that these things were just tooooooo popular!! Big deal!!!! We have almost four hundred thousand klicks on it, and I see no signs of it dying yet. And, the thought is in my mind of buying an SUV....[but never new], and.....I don't realy care if I'm called a "yuppie, a yappie, a hippie or a happy"!!! I plan on driving what I want and to the back door with anybody who tries to tell me to drive something different..... so there....[boy do I feel better now]...have a gooder, R.E.L.


Burrhead    Posted 11-30-2002 at 18:59:09       [Reply]  [No Email]
Grove r was a closet yuppie????? Man I feel so violated now. I'm devastated. 8^0


Grove r    Posted 11-30-2002 at 21:03:12       [Reply]  [No Email]
Well...I.....uh....I.....ah.....well.....gee!!.... I don't know....wuz I a what??? do them things bite??? Sure didn' mean ta vialate nobody.... never done that before.....whuts this world a'comin to.....gots ta go lay down fer a spell....


Burrhead    Posted 12-01-2002 at 06:04:17       [Reply]  [No Email]
yeah I was looking at a new dorf while I was picking up some parts the other day and some folks quit speaking to me.

It was a Extrusion or sumthin like that and I was'nt plannin on buying. I was just looking as I waited.

It looks like a suburban F350 and even has a diesel engine. When I saw the sticker price I had to dig out my nitro pills.


bob    Posted 12-01-2002 at 13:17:34       [Reply]  [No Email]
The shape we,re in burr we shouldn,t even buy green bannanas. some of the people driving big pickups don,t really haul anything but like them so let them its their money


Larry    Posted 12-01-2002 at 07:10:54       [Reply]  [Send Email]

Geesh Burr,A man in your condition shouldn't look at big $$$$ price stickers. I can just picture you standing there gulping air like a carp out of water,and turning green from swallowing your snuff. :-)


Burrhead    Posted 12-01-2002 at 17:55:35       [Reply]  [No Email]
ye got that right. I looked like one of them walking catfish going back to the shop.


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