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Under God?
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Corey    Posted 03-01-2003 at 16:53:42       [Reply]  [No Email]
I hope I don't come across as trying to blast anybody, but I have noticed a few post that deal with the phrase "under God" in the pledge. Don't missunderstand me, I am all for being patriotic to this country that was deffinitely established "under God". What I am trying to understand is why people (not necesarily on this post) whose speach obviously is not under God and their daily lives are obviously not under God, still yet fight to keep this phrase in the pledge for the nation in which they live. Doesn't "Under God" insinuate obedience and submission to God?

Stan(PA)    Posted 03-02-2003 at 09:11:36       [Reply]  [No Email]
In a nutshell.....
Religion and Politics don't mix...
Patriotism and one's religeous beliefs should be separate. Most of the world's problems are caused by people trying to force their own religeous beliefs on others. Jesus, Buddha, Allah, ect. all wanted and taught peace and love. Man changed this to an arrogant and unnecessary reason for war and killing. Live and let live is the best motto.

Cindi    Posted 03-02-2003 at 05:46:35       [Reply]  [No Email]
Having had a little more time to think about it, I came up with a few observations/questions about God and religion. I do not beleive that humans crawled out of the sea many many years ago and evolved into what we are today. There are some compelling arguments in favor of evolution (we came from monkeys) if you look at the evolution chart, it's pretty convincing, BUT, where did the monkeys come from? Where in the history of the bible are prehistoric men? What about dinosaurs? We have the evidence (bones) to prove they were here.

I understand that time, in the biblical sense is a great deal longer than it is today. In other words when the bible says God created the world in seven days, the Jehovah's witnesses say that's more like seven thousand years or something to that effect. If Adam and Eve committed this sin of eating from the tree of knowledge and the punishment for that was toil for Adam and the 'curse' for Eve and pain in childbirth, then why do dumb animals suffer the pain of childbirth?

I'm not trying to be facitious here I really have these questions.

Randy    Posted 03-02-2003 at 06:18:05       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Cindi, I'm sure Corey can answer some of your overnight thoughts. Me, I figure we are all God. Not to take away from what someone else believes. When we look in the mirror in the morning we choose our path for the day, right or wrong. We know the difference. I remember when I was at Mardi Gras all the born agains would come up to me and tell me how they used to be like me but were saved from that life. They were never like me, they were all drug addicts, drunks ,thiefs etc. Now they took on God and thought they were above every one else, without knowing the views of the other person. They were judging me on appearance alone. I don't know why, Grizzly Adams with dred locks doesn't seem to out there!

Cindi    Posted 03-02-2003 at 05:48:05       [Reply]  [No Email]
Excuse me, created in six days, rested on the seventh day.

GregWis    Posted 03-01-2003 at 21:01:05       [Reply]  [No Email]
Seems to me there are alot of people out there that think their God is the one true God, Their religion the one true religion, all based on their one true Holy Book (Bible, Koran Torah, etc..) and think that everyone else will end up in hell. Seems to me this kind of thinking took down two towers, a side of the Pentagon and four airplanes and is bringing the world to war. For more on the see the link below.

Randy    Posted 03-02-2003 at 06:26:03       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Greg, I never did understand the fighting amongst the believers. Thught they would save the fight for non believers like me. That Onion link was a hoot.

MikeC    Posted 03-02-2003 at 06:12:21       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Do you really think that the Onion is a good source of religious information?
Sorry, it's more like the MTV of the Internet with popup ads for the Osbornes and trash language on each page. Not something that I would base my spiritual life on.

Cindi    Posted 03-02-2003 at 04:07:17       [Reply]  [No Email]
That was the point I was trying to make, you did it a lot better than I did.

gregwis    Posted 03-01-2003 at 21:02:10       [Reply]  [No Email]
let me try again if not its

Amen Brother!    Posted 03-02-2003 at 03:25:30       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I have been saying this for years...

The Onion just put more succinctly...

Thanks for the link...


Randy    Posted 03-01-2003 at 17:45:04       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Corey, I don't get it either. I for one am not a believer but that doesn't stop me from trying to do the right thing for all involved. It's always been a head shaker for me and very interseting.

Corey    Posted 03-01-2003 at 18:19:07       [Reply]  [No Email]
Randy, I have many friends that are not believers and one thing I have found is that all people if they are honest have at some time looked for truth outside themselves, if you dont mind me asking, Are you still looking?

Randy    Posted 03-01-2003 at 18:25:12       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Corey , I don't mind you asking. I'm an open book. Not really looking, as I'm one of the most comfortable people with themselves that you will ever know. That being said I did order some tapes from John Hagee the other day. Always interested in more knowledge. I have one friend that is a Jahovah, he said he doesn't worry about me, I'll go to Heaven!

Corey    Posted 03-01-2003 at 18:35:12       [Reply]  [No Email]
Dont take his word for it or my word either for that matter, Gods word trumps us all. Heres a question, Have you ever told a lie? and if so was that a good thing to do? Have you ever stolen anything (value is irrevelent) even by accident? if so was that the right thing to do? If you agree that these things are wrong then there is only one belief that agrees with your conscience that is the law of the God of the bible. One day you will see Him face to face as we all will, seek Him now as the bible says while He will still be found by you. I am not in any way condemning you and I would be pleased to answer any questions you may have

Randy    Posted 03-01-2003 at 18:50:56       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Corey, I don't think you would condemn me. I also think you believe and live a good life because of it. I also don't believe and live a good life. I mean this sincerely, it's good to know that you're here for when I do have religious questions. As I'm sure I will. I'm very inquisitive and always interested in what works for other people. Time to go. Enjoy your night, good to be us.

Cindi    Posted 03-01-2003 at 18:00:19       [Reply]  [No Email]
I don't know if I can say I'm a beleiver or not. I, for obvious reasons, dropped the southern babtist religion like a hot potato. I tried catholic (my first husband)and I couldn't get into the 'stand-kneel, stand-kneel' or the idea that you could confess once a week and fix all your evils. I've been to several independent type churches of God and never felt at home.

I've had too many Jehovah's witnesses come to my door and not be able to answer questions I had about the religion. Besides I ain't giving up Christmas for nobody. I know I don't celebrate it for the right reasons, but I'm old, it's one of the few fun things I have left. I tried to read the bible and couldn't get past the 'begats'. I'm an all or nothing type person, and if I can't read it all, I won't try.

I have always had great faith in the 'golden rule'. Sounds to me like everything God stands for in a 'reader's digest' version.

'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'.

Kinda covers everything.

I will try to read the bible again though. I'll just skip the begats. I understand it has some great stories in it.

O.K. thats poses a question-    Posted 03-01-2003 at 19:25:04       [Reply]  [No Email]
Assuming the golden rule, your neighbor will call the deputies out when your goats get loose?
Just a ponder. Mike D.

Cindi    Posted 03-02-2003 at 04:11:28       [Reply]  [No Email]
By the way, it works two ways. A good neighbor/freind should know where their animals are. I would know in a minute or two if my animals are missing. But that's just me.

Cindi    Posted 03-02-2003 at 04:08:54       [Reply]  [No Email]
Probably not the first time, but if they get in his shed and eat his feed I would expect it.

Randy    Posted 03-01-2003 at 18:16:43       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I just figure I can't blame or expect some other person or diety to take my bad stuff as his or hers. But then again I'll take the credit for being right also. Was brought up Catholic, grew up around mostly Jews. One of my customers became an Interfaith Minister. Went to his graduation, very interesting. A swami, Rabbi, Father, etc. all spoke. Always do enjoy the different interpretaions of the same thing though. Also have noticed the biggest problems toward me have always been real religious types. Or they thought they were. One of my biggest thrills is going by a church on Sunday and seeing the elderly walking out and knowing they really believe. Warms my heart, good to be them.

Cindi    Posted 03-01-2003 at 18:26:26       [Reply]  [No Email]
Well this is a way heavy topic for the limited space provided but I just don't understand how a loving God could allow children for example to submit to horrendous abuses. Not to be sacreligious in any way, but if I had the power that God has I would plant a lightning bolt right in the middle of the tormentors head. I think I understand enough to know that we have choices and this life is only a stepping stone to heaven but dang, why do the children have to suffer so much.

Corey    Posted 03-01-2003 at 18:54:11       [Reply]  [No Email]
God does not desire children or anyone else for that matter to suffer, He has provided us with everything we need its mans sin that causes suffering, and as God has given us a free will to serve or reject Him we can mess things up pretty bad and unfortunately our sin tends to affect others. example: in any given year the state of Texas produces enough food to sustain all the starving people in the world, so how can we blame God for suffering when the provision is there, its our fault that they dont recieve the things that God has provided.

Randy    Posted 03-01-2003 at 19:00:04       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I agree, we screw up a lot of things. Then people will pray for help. Wouldn't need to if they did the right thing from the beginning.

Randy    Posted 03-01-2003 at 18:34:28       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Cindi, I know the whole suffering thing always got me too. But I also think we make our own beds at times and perhaps are paying from past lives mistakes. At times you think He or She would just want to start over!

Corey    Posted 03-01-2003 at 18:16:02       [Reply]  [No Email]
Cindi, get yourself a New King James or a New International Bible, it has no begats, and if you would take any advice start in the book of John, its the fourth book of the new testament and it starts its information from the beginning. If you have any questions feel free to email me at and what I said earlier holds true for me too, anything I say must line up with scripture or it is useless.

Les    Posted 03-01-2003 at 17:44:09       [Reply]  [No Email]
I think "acknowledge" might be a better word. Whether He is acknowledged, obeyed, submitted to or not doesn't change the fact that He is who He is.

Cindi    Posted 03-01-2003 at 17:10:28       [Reply]  [No Email]
I always took it to mean, under the eyes of God. More like a warning. I know that sounds crazy but I was raised in a southern babtist, screaming and hollering, pulpit pounding, hot-headed preachering, type church. You know fire and brimstone, burn in hel*, devil on your shoulder and you better watch out!!!! Amazing the different interpretations in the bible.

Corey    Posted 03-01-2003 at 18:10:44       [Reply]  [No Email]
Cindi, I thank you for you reply and I want to appologise to you on behalf of the wrong teaching you obviously recieved. I also would like to respond to a statement you made about so many interpretations of the bible. Think about what the bible itself says in: 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit."
Cindi, this does not mean that you are not to interpret scripture, rather that you should not accept someone elses (private) interpretation without first lining it up with the bible. The bible is not intended to be hard to understand, just obeyed and we all will be responsible for our own actions toward it. If you have any interest in God at all please study His word for yourself. 2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to show yourself approved, a worker that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing (interpreting) the word of truth.

well said corey....n/m..pp    Posted 03-01-2003 at 18:26:06       [Reply]  [Send Email]

well said corey....n/m..pp    Posted 03-01-2003 at 18:25:05       [Reply]  [Send Email]

Randy    Posted 03-01-2003 at 18:21:04       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Corey, that is impressive that you know all that. It sounds like you really live the Bible. Good to be you. We have a lot of religious channels here in CT and I'll stop and watch some programs. One guy that seems extremely charismatic is John Hagee from San Antonio.

Corey    Posted 03-01-2003 at 18:48:16       [Reply]  [No Email]
Randy, I hope that you will not just leave your search with John Hagee, and I have devoted my life to serving God but that makes me no better than you and knowledge in itself is of value only as far as it brings you to a personal relationship with the one you are knowledgeable about. John Hagee does have some good things to say, but the standard still applies, Gods word has the final say. As I encourage others, start with the book of John, its the fourth book of the new testament and it explains things from the beggining.

Randy    Posted 03-01-2003 at 18:55:49       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I always search for knowledge regardless of topic. Won't stop with John Hagee, just interesting to me right now. I was actually in the Crystal Cathedral once. Had a private tour. Amazing what your God can build! Talk at you tomorrow.

Cindi    Posted 03-01-2003 at 18:17:34       [Reply]  [No Email]
What I mean to say is that each major religion seems to have it's own ideals about how to be in the Lord's word. If that's not enough, you have The Lord God, and Jehovah, and Yahweh, and Buddha and the list goes on and on. For one who is 'unaffiliated' it can be very overwhelming. I think your advise is the best. Read the bible. Now what version should I read? I understand there are different versions. I'm an open book here. Honestly don't know where to start.

Corey    Posted 03-01-2003 at 18:25:44       [Reply]  [No Email]
I responded to a post up a little as to bible versions, and the answers are their for you questions, no reason to be confused. Jehovah and Yahweh are the same word, in hebrew the equivalent for God was YHWH which some people translate as Jehovah and some as Yahweh, doesn't realy matter it means the same and that is the name for God in the old testament. Buddah on the othe hand was an oriental philosopher that did not believe in God as such at all.

Cindi    Posted 03-01-2003 at 18:29:24       [Reply]  [No Email]
Okay, thanks.

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