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Country Discussion Topics
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Site Electrical Person for Hire- Free
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Jimbob    Posted 03-02-2003 at 18:38:53       [Reply]  [No Email]
If you have an electrical issue from your house to your tractor, fell free to ask me. I also used to build electrical generation plants & have a strong background in electronics.


bob ny    Posted 03-03-2003 at 05:41:43       [Reply]  [No Email]
gheeze jim bob you sure give good advtse


M.D.    Posted 03-02-2003 at 19:35:58       [Reply]  [No Email]
Whew, thanks for the offer Jimbob,
I'm reworking an old tobacco packing barn. Converting it into a woodshop. Will be using a 220
volt table saw. The rest of the equipment is 110.
The barn is 300 feet from our house. The house has a 200 amp service. I want to go underground with the service to the shop. Will need 10 ceiling fixtures. About 10-12 wall outlets. Will be running an large exhaust fan in the paint booth. Sure would like to hear what you think. Mike D.


Jimbob    Posted 03-04-2003 at 17:57:38       [Reply]  [No Email]
You have to follow your local codes & some areas have a minimum service requirement- but is rare. I figure a 60 amp 240/120 service should be the minimum. Enough to operate a welder (busbox) and your saw, lighting upon other items.


Lazy Al    Posted 03-03-2003 at 03:52:01       [Reply]  [No Email]
MD You aren't giving good information to have
any one give you good advice . You need to add
up your amp draw . Then size you wire and breaker to that . Then you stop and think your not going to be running your saw and painting
at the same time . so your amp draw isn't as much as all of them together . Just install ones
big enough for future things .My 2
Al


here are the numbers-    Posted 03-03-2003 at 06:20:43       [Reply]  [No Email]
o.k. Lazy Al-
Now see there? Thats why I need some help. The plate on the table saw has been long gone. I suspect there is a plate on the motor. It is in storage now, but I'll try to look this weekend. I mostly work alone when cutting out & assembling so only one tool is running at a time. You are right about not running saws when painting. Here is my amp use per tool. The smaller hand tools like sanders, screw guns, etc. I won't bother to list. I figure I'll need two 20 amp circuits for wall outlets. Two 15 amp circuits for lighting. The exhaust fan is a 'whole house' fan that I tore out of a place while doing a renovation some years back. There is not plate on it but I suspect a 15 amp circuit will be plenty for it.
I use it now.


Compressor- I use these on site. Never had a breaker trip while using them. Usually try to plug them into a kitchen or laundry room plug.
They are rated at 13 amps.

Panel Saw- 110 rated at 13 amps.

Planer is- 110 rated at 11 amps

Paint fan (hvlp) 110 rated at 8 amps

Sure hope that will give the information needed to size up the underground wire & sub panel.

Mike D.



Jimbob    Posted 03-04-2003 at 17:59:52       [Reply]  [No Email]
60 amps @ 240/120 volts is fine.


Lazy Al    Posted 03-03-2003 at 10:58:48       [Reply]  [No Email]
Mike . I would feel better if Jimbob would answer you at least he has some facts to go on.
What I will say though is go the extra money and put it in conduit and with that distance put steel elbows at both ends . You can get some jet line and tie a sandwich bag with a little air in it and take your vacumm and suck a line thur then tie a larger rope on and pull that thru , then pull your wire in with that .Get some soap like polly water for pulling wire and use lots of that .have some one push on the wire and soap it while someone pulls . 300 foot is quite a long pull by hand DON'T break the rope !!!
While the trench is open think of what else you might want out there like phone or water .
Al
PS If you go the conduit route post back before you start . for a few do's and don'ts .


M.D.    Posted 03-03-2003 at 12:42:27       [Reply]  [No Email]
Thank you Lazy Al,
I sure appreciate the response. I will take it to heart. Good to get some ideas to think through. I hope to do the wiring in May. If I cut a trench now I'd need to be rescued by the coast guard it is so wet...


Foz    Posted 03-02-2003 at 20:09:37       [Reply]  [No Email]
MD if that wre my place I'd prolly run a size #2-2-2-4 URD wire on a 60 amp breaker from your house, here's why.
you are going to run a saw(220)large exahuast fan (prolly 220) you said paint booth(probably220for air comp)and if you later decide to run a cracker box welder you could spend the extra few $ for a bigger breaker to allow for that. But changing the size on buried wire ain't easy!If you are really gunna do this I'd have to run the numbers on voltage drop for that distance but of the top of my head this would work for the afore mentioned load.(This is what I MIGHT do if it was mine! be clear on that for liability reasons! I do not suggest this for others)


Willy-N    Posted 03-02-2003 at 22:25:32       [Reply]  [No Email]
The #2 alum would give you a 9.8 volt drop or 4.8% volt drop for 300 ft at a 60 amp draw. If you are wanting to run a welder, I would run 1/0 , 1/0, #2 just for that little extra voltage. Won't cost that much extra for the wire. For the things he was talking about #2 would be OK. My barn run was 475 ft and I ran 2/0 2/0 1/0 Alu URD and just put a 100 amp service in no problems with voltage drop. You can splice on smaller wire at the house panel to get into it easy as long as you breaker it to the smaller size. I have a 400 amp service (2-200 amp panels)so there is lot of room to add stuff. Mark H.


Foz    Posted 03-03-2003 at 06:45:15       [Reply]  [No Email]
Thanks WILLY-N ,thats why I said I'd have to run the numbers. I was just to tired to look for my calculator last night!This is a prime example of KNOWING and not ASSUMING something would work! When working with electicity, one should always KNOW what is gunna happen before the project gets energized!


Willy-N I cheat!    Posted 03-03-2003 at 07:03:37       [Reply]  [No Email]
When I was Contracting I bought this neat Calculator it is for Electrical Work and you can do all kinds of things with it. It tells you motor HP, power factors, efficency, wire size, conduit size, derating, Voltage drop and more! Like a little code book with buttons on it. Saves looking up the formulas and testing your memory. It is called a ElectriCalc Plus and cost around 180.00 when I bought it but I think you can get them cheaper now. Mark H.


Foz    Posted 03-03-2003 at 07:15:04       [Reply]  [No Email]
Nearly bought one of those several times! theres one on the counter at the supply house an I have picked it up and then put it back a dozen times. One of these days I'll have a weak moment!


Hey WILLY-N    Posted 03-03-2003 at 07:23:20       [Reply]  [No Email]
While you got your little magic machine out ,would ya mind looking to see the drop for 4/0 urd at 1900' at 30 amps? If it's a bother don'tmess with it I'll look it up later. Thanks...Warren(Foz)


Willy-N    Posted 03-03-2003 at 07:54:49       [Reply]  [No Email]
It is a 9.7 volt drop for 4/0 alu @ 30 amps 230 volt. 500MCM would be correct size for that run with a 4.1 volt drop, 1.8% drop. Big wire just because of low voltage now you see why the power company like HIGH Voltage for transmission lines. Mark H>


Foz    Posted 03-03-2003 at 07:58:29       [Reply]  [No Email]
Um I failed to tell ya at 480 volts, was gunna step down when I got there!


Willy-N    Posted 03-03-2003 at 08:19:20       [Reply]  [No Email]
Still get the 9.7 Volt drop but you fall into the 2% volt drop range so it will work no problem. Mark H.


M.D.    Posted 03-02-2003 at 21:46:37       [Reply]  [No Email]
Sounds like good advice. The saw is the only 220 now, but who knows what will turn up in the future? I paint with HVLP so very little draw there, 110. The compressors are portables- 110.
I would like to upgrade my planer, but need to buy a semi mount plow first. I like your suggestion to run 60 amps and then have it there if I need it in the future. Thanks for the help Foz. Mike D.


PDB - Service entrance wire selection question.    Posted 03-02-2003 at 19:27:14       [Reply]  [No Email]
Is it ok to use three separate 2/0 Cu wires in conduit instead of that stiff 4/0 4/0 4/0 Al SEC cable for wiring a 200 amp service between the meter base and the breaker box?
I want to use conduit for protection and I can't see myself wrestling that stiff cable through conduit.
There is less than 10 feet between the meter and the breaker box.


Willy-N    Posted 03-02-2003 at 20:05:08       [Reply]  [No Email]
2/0, 2/0, 1/0 (neutral) copper will be OK good for 200 amps. Mark H.


mojo    Posted 03-02-2003 at 19:15:28       [Reply]  [Send Email]
i take you up on that!
what size generator do i need in case of power outage? we have the typical household appliances plus a 1 1/2 ton furnace plus another 1 ton.
shooting from the hip i'm guessing a 5k but would appreciate a better educated guess.
thanks!


Willy-N    Posted 03-02-2003 at 22:30:30       [Reply]  [No Email]
Won't run a electric furnace but if you have gas it will take care of the fan. I would go for a 8 kw minium and you can do allmost everthing off it. Not that much more and get electic start for those cold winter starts. Mark H.


mojo    Posted 03-02-2003 at 22:43:48       [Reply]  [No Email]
thanks! 'spose i should have mentioned gas, just took it for granted. probably would be to able to plug in tractors and vehicles also at 8.


Jimbob    Posted 03-04-2003 at 19:12:51       [Reply]  [No Email]
Again, Willy is right. I only use a 8KW as 5KW is just a little on the small side. This is especially true if you have a well pump of 1hp or slightly larger.


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