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Country Discussion Topics
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Speaking of sand
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Ron,Ar    Posted 07-02-2003 at 20:58:24       [Reply]  [No Email]
I would have thought that folks in Saudi Arabia and other desert countries would have plenty of good sand to make concrete with. A Contractor I know tell me not so, sorta. Seems like that sand has been around a long time and blown around and around till it has no sharp edges to it, grains are kinda rounded and dont adhere together in concrete well.It will make concrete but not real good concrete. Thats what he said.


hm..wonder what kind of..    Posted 07-02-2003 at 21:12:47       [Reply]  [No Email]
..sand we must be using here in PR, it's been around for some time also...

Patria


Clod    Posted 07-02-2003 at 21:25:05       [Reply]  [No Email]
What is strongest? Cement without sand? Cement with sand? Cement with sand and gravel?


DeadCarp    Posted 07-03-2003 at 07:00:36       [Reply]  [No Email]
Mark pretty well said it, but the traditional mix of sand & gravel with cement for a binder is strongest. Cement is just crushed & baked limestone, not very sturdy by itself. You can test sand easy, just pick up a dry handful and let it run thru your fingers - if it goes smooth like an hourglass, don't use it. If it will form a little cliff but then forms a ball damp, it might need to be washed first. Fill a coffeecan and soak it, then see what rinses out. Clean sand won't stick together. Crushed rock is stronger than real gravel because if its shape - generally the steeper it can be piled, the more desirable it will be.


In my mixer i use 12 shovels of sand, 10 gravel and 3 cement. That gives me a wheelbarrowful, maybe 1/3 yard. I like it dark green and sticky (too lazy to do a lot of hard finishing :) For mortar for setting blocks or stucco, i proportion 3 sand & 1 PLASTIC cement. Mix it good, unplug during coffee break, then remix and it will come right back perfect. Adding more cement makes it richer & stronger but more brittle.


Other thing to remember - any piece bigger than 12 feet WILL crack when the sun expands it, so make a straight crease for it to follow, either while you're finishing it or tomorrow with a skilsaw. Concrete blade & a board alongside for guide works slick the next day.


Oh, curious fact - concrete gets harder as it gets older. Designed strength should be reached in the first 2 weeks, then the real initial set takes 400 years. The oldest known cement in Rome is still slowly getting tougher.




Clod    Posted 07-03-2003 at 07:05:48       [Reply]  [No Email]
I wonder who came up with the idea of sticking steel bars in concrete? Why would this be useful?


markct    Posted 07-02-2003 at 22:14:50       [Reply]  [No Email]
well i never heard of putting gravel in cement,do ya mean crushed stone?. concrete with crushed stone is stronger than concrete made with just sand, and i dont know what happens if ya make it without sand, weak would be my guess since no one seems to do it. the crushed stone is called aggregate, the rougher and sharper the better, no river run rock, concrete doesnt stick to it as well. as far as strong concrete goes, they add rebar to it of course to make it stronger, and they also add fiberglass to concrete mix to up the strength.


Clod    Posted 07-03-2003 at 05:52:51       [Reply]  [No Email]
If you left out the cement?


one more thing    Posted 07-02-2003 at 22:17:12       [Reply]  [No Email]
i forgot to mention that lime in concrete makes it more "sticky" thats why ya use lime in mortar for sticking rocks,bricks etc together


Patria / PR    Posted 07-02-2003 at 21:33:18       [Reply]  [Send Email]
hm Clod..I would say without sand.

But then again..you're not thinking of me to do your next project..hm?

I'm heading for bed now...

Nite everybody


Ron,Ar    Posted 07-02-2003 at 21:48:52       [Reply]  [No Email]
Goodnight, always good to hear from folks afar off. Makes the world seem closer.


Clod    Posted 07-02-2003 at 22:01:55       [Reply]  [No Email]
Nite you two.


Clod    Posted 07-03-2003 at 06:41:06       [Reply]  [No Email]
(From the site below)> Cement is the most expensive component of concrete, so there is often a tendency to economise by reducing the cement to a very small proportion. In important building projects the proportions of the components are very carefully specified and controlled, and samples of the hardened concrete are tested to ensure that its stength is appropriate to the job.

In addition to the proportions of cement to aggregate, there is a close and important relationship between the amount of water used in the mix, and the final strength of the concrete. A sloppy, runny mix produces weak concrete. Usually the volume of water is about the same as the volume of cement in the mix. The problem with making too dry a mix is that it isn't easy to work with, and is likely to have cavities in it when hardened. This of course will greatly reduce its strength.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



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