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Country Discussion Topics
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Another word on outsiders
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Ron,Ar    Posted 08-01-2003 at 15:22:22       [Reply]  [No Email]
Somebody brought up the issue of imigrants of aliens sending money home. Happens a lot here. There are shops set up that do nothing but provide this service (wiring money to Mexico usually) There are two sides to this.
One side of the coin:
the money sent home stays at home (foreign soil) and no taxes are collected on it. If the worker does benefit from US programs then he has not paid his "fair share" in.The taxpayers pay for it.
The other side of it:
There are many employers here (poultry & logging)
which encourage these folks because they represent cheap labor. They are just as much at fault, they break the law by not with-holding taxes. Also there are several jobs that used to be done by American workers that are being done by foreigners simply because no one else will do it for the wages paid. On road construction jobs whole crews are Hispanic and working for min. wage and happy to get it. Why? Average young man out of high school won't do that work for that wage. Supply and demand. If the imigrant will do it for 5.55 why pay American citizen 9.50. On the other hand if the borders were not so open the wages would have to go up to keep a workforce employed. When I got out of high school I went to work for 1.25 Hr. Hauled hay on weekends for 2 cents a bale. Try to get someone to do that today.
Whose fault is this? Taxpayers let it happen, but it didn't happen overnight. It will not get better overnight either. But we must begin a change sometime. JMO


magpie    Posted 08-01-2003 at 22:09:02       [Reply]  [No Email]
I don't know about poultry, Ron, But I don't think you are going to find any minimum wage migrant workers working in logging or road construction. I don't know where you live, but in B.C. here most jobs in logging consist of operating fairly expensive equipment. Good grief can you imagine a migrant worker right off the street operating a yarder, or even hooking chokers. These jobs require knowledge and experience. The same goes for road construction, road jobs are usually union or at least union rates. I think if you do find any immigrants working in this line of work they are going to be making the same as the rest of us.


Ron,Ar    Posted 08-02-2003 at 06:21:13       [Reply]  [No Email]
Logging was a poor choice of words, sawmills is better. I can take you to at least three mills within thirty miles that do this . Two of them provide on site-housing and the other has built a small trailer park in town for this purpose. Sorta a tennament row thing. Do you know what a "green chain" is?
Boards come off the saw down a chain-conveyer. A row of men stand in a line and pull and stack it by length and grade. Backbreaking and very repetitive. Not much brains involved at that level. This is not a big union area here, there is a large interstate const. project going on statewide (I-30,I-40) ask any trucker who drives thu this state. Most "shovel" jobs are min. wage and are held by non-english speaking folks. I'll give them credit tho, they are working son of a guns. I wish things everywhere were as rosey as you paint it, but they are not. Things are different here .


magpie    Posted 08-02-2003 at 11:05:54       [Reply]  [No Email]
I see, well things aren't exactly rosey here either, lots of unemployment. Due to the terrain here and the time frame that things have to be done in, there arent really any shovel or stoop labor jobs. Road jobs require a lot of drilling and blasting, plus excavating and hualung. At least any I've been on anyway. You do occasionly see someone shoveling off the edges of a bridge in winter, but these are well paid highway maintence workers.
Yes I certianly do know what a green chain is, and I believe you. I suspect there are still some mills and logging companys in B.C. that are run on a shoestring and pay very poorly. I have worked for them, that is how you get experience enough to work for the bigger outfits.
I think farmers in the okanagan bring in migrant workers for the fruit harvest, but don't know anything about how they are paid though.


toolman    Posted 08-02-2003 at 12:31:04       [Reply]  [No Email]
they are paid on how much they pick ,i.e. the harder they work the more they make, some say they make a good wage, lots of them come from quebec pick fruit for the summer live in campgrounds and work for the ski hills in the winter.so i hear anyway.


Jimbob    Posted 08-01-2003 at 15:47:55       [Reply]  [No Email]
For a healthy economy, money must change hands. Seven times is ideal. The rich have been more successful in later years to limit that. Sending money overseas 'shorts out' the system.

On the other hand, I worked with an engineer from India. He made $40/mo sallary there. His parents were having a bad time as well. He sends some money 'home' to help support them.


Randy    Posted 08-01-2003 at 15:36:52       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Around here in CT we have seen a big influx of immigrants. Lots of them work for people in the landscaping business. I don't think around here they work for minimum wage, way over. They show up, they work hard. Doesn't matter how long the day is, they stay and get the job done. Perhaps if WE Americans still had that great work ethic there would be no need for outsiders.
I know my nephew and me have a hard time getting help and we'll pay $10-$15 per hour. What we've done is kept the business small so we can handle the work ourselves. Lots of long hours but oh well.


Les    Posted 08-01-2003 at 18:31:47       [Reply]  [No Email]
I have no problem with immigrants. The few that we have around here are hard working honest people. There are two sisters from the Azores who have a restaurant near me. I don't know of any nicer people anywhere.


Sven    Posted 08-01-2003 at 17:24:48       [Reply]  [No Email]

please do not include all americans when you talk about work ethic, here in the midwest, we still have it.


Randy    Posted 08-01-2003 at 17:37:08       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Wouldn't think of it. But I think you understood what I meant. Obviously some of us still do.


Sven    Posted 08-02-2003 at 12:01:07       [Reply]  [No Email]
Yes, I understood what you meant, and should have rephrased my comment to read, those of us who live in the midwest rural areas, and heavy on the RURAL.


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