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On the Amish
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Over the hill.    Posted 11-15-2003 at 04:32:13       [Reply]  [No Email]
In our little secluded portion of the world we have not had much experience with the Amish. But in the last few years or so they have been moving in by the dozens. I guess they like our privacy. Now, on a Sunday morning it's clipity klop one way and klopity clip the other, a few hours later.
I had one experience with them when their horse was spooked by a splash of rainwater from a passing one ton. It overturned the buggy in my field. The first thing the boys did was explain to me why I was not rich, (my farming expense was too high, they said). I didn't explain that I was educating my children at the university, somehow I didn't believe they would comprehend. The mother was very distant and bossy. I do not remember them thanking me at all. I was glad to help them by getting the buggy upright but they seemed to be very condecending.
Now, an Amish family has moved into the next door house of a very good old friend. I do miss the old people who are gone and find it hard to meet these new people.
I guess my problem is, I just find it sinful to choose not to educate your children. It is the number one obligation of a human to use his brain and that brain is useless without education. You can't even understand your obligations to others, let alone perform them, without a proper education. They seem a lot like the communist of Russia who used propaganda and limited the truth to the people in order to keep their self-serving government in power.
I am wondering if I should go over and welcome these people, or would I regret that kind of action. I can't stand humans who beleive in their own superiority. Are the Amish that way?

Doc    Posted 11-15-2003 at 18:01:34       [Reply]  [No Email]
Yes, the Amish and Mennonite are "colonized" so to speak. That is because they go to great lengths to ensure their religion and way of life. They do not want to integrate into our society totally because their religion does not agree with our lifestyle. They want to protect their heritage and children from the new evils of TV, movies, etc. The main reason the Amish shun cars is that their main objective is to keep the communities intact and vehicles would make them more mobile thus breaking up their Amish communities. These are not my words but from the mouths of the Amish that I have had deep discussions with. My Amish friends that feel comfortable enough with me to discuss their religion and lifestyle.

When the kids become old enough they are allowed to venture into the English world to experience it firsthand. Most go back, some do not. Cindi was right in that they have some of the same problems with their children as we do. They are human just like us but they give their children a much deeper Christian foundation than most of us give our children.

They are different from me but I do not fear it, I respect it and visa versa. (did I spell that right Cindi?).

Ron/PA    Posted 11-15-2003 at 15:08:31       [Reply]  [No Email]
I've dealt with Amish all of my life, I've lived next to them, employed them, contracted them and their farms, I even took an Amish girl to a few church socials. I don't know about any other area of the country, but here in central PA. the reality is nothing like I'm hearing here.
You will never see a practicing Amish with a college degree. I'm guessing mebbe my parents are by the standards of this post, major sinners. I was given the opportunity to go to Penn State university to attain the degree of DVM. I attended one semester and opted out,, quit!
Amish children consider the working trades an admiral profession, as do their parents, as do I!
I would not deal with Amish in any venture over $1000.00 without a written contract, then again I probably wouldn't deal with a non Amish either. Speaking of Non Amish, in all my years of dealing with the Amish, I've never heard myself called an
"English" it makes Tim Allen a good movie part, and it may happen in some areas, but not around here.
All in all, I'd recommend that you get to know your amish neighbors, some are saints, some are a-holes, all of them have a strong religion based way of life that sets them apart from the rest of the world. That way of life can come across as stupidity, superiority, snobbishness, or even subservient.
Don't try to second guess them until you've gotten to know them.
You may notice that this is not a testimonial to the Amish way of life,, it's not meant to be. Just don't let the idealistic rumors lead you to any conclusions.
Amish are people just like the rest of the human race, there are good and bad, and most are just average working folks like every other farmer or laborer in the world.

Cosmo    Posted 11-16-2003 at 04:30:32       [Reply]  [No Email]
Well said.

Dave    Posted 11-15-2003 at 08:51:10       [Reply]  [No Email]
Is this board censored? It will not let me post the response that I wanted to send. There are no bad words in it. I just want to see if this goes thru.........

Dave    Posted 11-15-2003 at 08:57:30       [Reply]  [No Email]
Sure did, well I don't know what I was trying to say that was so bad!!!!


I tried several times, Here's what it says:
Coming in from remote address:
Remote Host:
Using Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1)
Sat Nov 15 08:53:33 PST 2003
Sorry, your message could not be added.

Subject: Re: Re: On the Amish Email: Name: Dave Date: November 15, 2003 at 08:53:33

Dave    Posted 11-15-2003 at 08:59:35       [Reply]  [No Email]
Ya'll can just ignore me.......
Part 1:
I believe in what you're saying. One thing though and I'm not necessarily talking about the Amish, don't really know much about them. And I’m not jumping on your case; please don’t take this as hostility. It just happens to be one of my pet peeves.

Dave    Posted 11-15-2003 at 09:03:43       [Reply]  [No Email]
I found it, it was the word s_xual...

I believe in what you're saying. One thing though and I'm not necessarily talking about the Amish, don't really know much about them. And I’m not jumping on your case; please don’t take this as hostility. It just happens to be one of my pet peeves.
I view the public schools and universities in this country much like you describe the ones in Russia. It is amazing that these radically liberal "professors" are allowed to hold a job much less be praised and respected as they are.
I sure don't want my kids going to most of those places. Even here in the "bible belt" there are teachers in the high schools spewing all kinds of stuff about there being no s_xual boundaries and how this country sucks and socialism is the way to go. Luckily around here, for the most part, those kinds don't last long. In other places that's the norm.
Also, there are a lot of “well educated” derelicts out there. Plus there are a lot of "A" students working for "C" students. The education that is handed out teach people how to get and hold a job, it don't really teach them how to think. There are great books by and about great achievers that tell the great truths about real success and how most anybody can have it if they understand and apply the proven principals. “They” had rather teach Shakespeare and “new” math.
I always hated reading when I was younger. In fact from the time I got out of school (1979) to about 3 years ago I may have read one Zane Grey book. Then I got involved with some people that really changed my way of thinking. I don’t want to brag about what I’ve done since, but here is a quote that’s worth thinking about. They put the really nice things in live on the upper shelves and the only way to reach up there is by standing on the books you read. (Of course they have to be the right kind of books)
In the first place there is no excuse for not being nice and showing appreciation.

Over the hill.    Posted 11-15-2003 at 10:41:43       [Reply]  [No Email]
In reading your response it seems to be coming across that you are more concerned with the class status that you associate with education, rather than with the education itself. I myself adhere to the constitution which proclaims all people are created equal and consider class status as un-American. However that does not mean that we should all stop our education because some don't want it and they are afraid they might become unequal. I have always found that uneducated people are more likely to step on my rights even if for no other reason than they don't know any better. (Religous or not)
It would be impossible to "think " as you say without some education.
You know it is interesting that you bring up that old much acclaimed adage about A students working for C students. Let me say, I believe it very much. I would bet that if a poll were taken it would be found out that a huge majority of millionairs are C students. The reason is simple; as intelligence goes up greed goes down. Honest A students have learned that there is so much more to live for than working your but off in order to impress others. When they have enough they tend to back off and look for other things in life.
Also, by listening to my children, who have taken advantage of our universities I cannot accept your assesment of the universitios or the professors who work there.
Frankly, I am hoping that is the situation with my new Amish neighbor. That is that they are highly intelligent people who have chosen an alternative lifestyle and don't need to impress their neighbors with their materialism.

Dave    Posted 11-15-2003 at 22:03:54       [Reply]  [No Email]
I love quotes. I collect them. One of my favorites is this one from Zig Zigglar "You can have anything in life you want, if you'll help enough other people get what they want." I try to live by that and it works for me. It's not all money, having it sure does make it easier to focus on the really important things though.
Here's another of my favorites "Status is buying things you don't need with money you don't have to impress people that you don't even like"

Have a wonderful weekend, or what's left of it :)

Les    Posted 11-15-2003 at 07:00:26       [Reply]  [No Email]
While I don't disagree with your premise about education, it is NOT man's primary responsibility to "use his brain", as you say. Rather, I would say it is to love God with all of your being and serve him with gladness. There is nothing that could possibly bring any more joy to a life than that.
Maybe these folks don't have that kind of joy but my guess would be that, overall, the Amish are much happier and content that the average American.

Over the hill    Posted 11-15-2003 at 15:09:41       [Reply]  [No Email]
You know I just ask a question about a situation and boy did you jump on it.
I don't like getting into a duel of words here, but I would like to understand how someone can proclaim such a statement, love God with all your being without using your brain. Your being is your brain. In case you don't realize it, the word love is a verb, it is to describe how you are treating someone. To just say, I love you without some form of action sounds ludicrous. You use your brain to live this life as God intended. Your brain is the manager of your actions.
If you are to love God with all your being, you have to start by the method that God provided. That method is education. Thus, education is God's primary order to us.

Donna from Mo    Posted 11-16-2003 at 01:28:33       [Reply]  [No Email]
Some of the wisest people I have known had only a sixth-grade education, and utilized their brains better than most college graduates.

My Senior Literature teacher told her students, "Just because you are graduating, your education need not end; as long as you read, whether it be newspapers or novels, your education is continuing." Her statement still rings in my mind, and has often made me stop and take time to read a book.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Psalm 111:10

Dave    Posted 11-16-2003 at 18:08:49       [Reply]  [No Email]

I agree cd's and tapes are another great way to keep feeding your mind, especially if you are in the car a lot. There are many, many worthwhile tape sets and books on tape. Turn your car into a university. Many highly successful people had very little formal education. I not really dissing a formal education, it has it's purpose and place, just saying I wouldn't teach my kids to lean on it too hard and think that's all there is to it.
As to the reply to Les' response, we are actually a 3 dimensional being. We are a spirit that possesses a mind and a body. They all need fed. When you stop moving forward you start sliding backward. You can't stay still. That's why most people with a real passion for their "work" live to a ripe old age; Emerson, Ford, etc.

I am in no way affiliated with these people, so I hope nobody gets offended by my "advertising" but here are a few good places to get some real life changing material, just in case anyone is interested.

Uh Yep    Posted 11-15-2003 at 07:49:28       [Reply]  [No Email]
Think You summed it up very well. Having met a lot of Amish mostly at sale Barns I have found once You meet Them half way They are nice People and I agree as to being a whole lot happier than most "Englishers".

As to dislikeing People who feel "superior" ain't this mabe a little bit of tha kettle callin tha Pot black?

deadcarp    Posted 11-15-2003 at 09:07:49       [Reply]  [No Email]
couple years ago i was at an auction and this amish guy frank was scurrying around helping out - they were trying to sell a microwave whose door wouldn't open and everybody milled around shaking and tugging and slapping. pretty soon frank strolled up, looked at it, clicked the right button and it was open! the auctioneer said "wouldn't you know it folks, the one guy here who doesn't have electricity and he's the one who can run a microwave!" ol frank took a bow :)

Cindi    Posted 11-15-2003 at 06:43:17       [Reply]  [No Email]
Yeah, I wouldn't form an opinion based on one encounter. I would go meet the neighors.

We had Mennonites in Sarasota when I lived there and they had as big a struggle keeping their families on the straight and narrow as anyone else. They were standofish and stuck to themselves, but they made a very good living off the rest of us heathens by means of produce stands and craft sales. They seemed like nice enough people, but there was always that reserve, that 'I can do business with you, but you are really not up to par in my opinion'.

I don't know why, and you can go ahead and yell at me for this but it gave me some kind of perverse pleasure to drive by and see one of those staunchy mennonite's kids up to no good. (Smoking, standing on the corner in bunches, with a radio blaring, etc.) It kind of made me feel like no matter how hard you try, how strict you are, how much you distance yourself, kids are going to humble you. In that respect, we are all on the same level no matter how religious we are.

newgen    Posted 11-15-2003 at 10:32:37       [Reply]  [No Email]
To put it quite bluntly, {and I'm likely to get blasted for this}-most-{not all} Amishmen I've dealt with seem to have the arritude that a black hat and a billygoat beard should get them special treatment. And talk about women's rights, they definatly seem to view women as second class citizens.

Red Dave    Posted 11-15-2003 at 06:34:36       [Reply]  [No Email]
Here in Lancaster County, we have several different varieties of Amish and just about every flavor of Mennonite, from the ones who are almost Amish to the brethren who are kind of "Mennonite lite"

I can see the subtle differences because I have lived here all my life and count many as friends.

The Amish and Old Order Mennonite's are very clannish, they do avoid most contact with outsiders unless it's for their own benifit. They are often rude to us "english" until they get to know us. They have some ways that I can't justify in my mind as religious based, but then don't need to justify anything to me either. I do not like the way some of them treat their children or their animals.

I have found that most are OK people, but not all. That could be said of any denomination though, couldn't it?

BTW, don't buy a horse or a dog from an Amishman, unless you really, really, know what you're doing.

Jose    Posted 11-15-2003 at 06:27:48       [Reply]  [No Email]
No, but maybe you are.

Jim    Posted 11-15-2003 at 06:24:48       [Reply]  [No Email]
I envy that lifestyle! I have always thought if they can live doing things the way they do, we must look at the way we think we must have things. Their lifestyle is not threatening, it's simple. I have done business with some Amish in the past, and I'll say I trust their word. I would be thrilled if Amish moved next door. Get to know them. They are quiet, simple people that teach their children there are rules and if they break the rules, there is punishment. What a good idea!!

bill b va    Posted 11-15-2003 at 06:08:06       [Reply]  [No Email]

i would rather have the amish than a lot of others i can think of . especially the ones with excuses and thinks the world owes them a free ride

Doc    Posted 11-15-2003 at 05:05:54       [Reply]  [No Email]
By all means. Take the time and go over and introduce yourself. Take a home baked pie or cake. They are wary of English (that's what they call us) strangers and with good reason (they read the papers too). I don't know what order of Amish they are but as long as they are not the strict Swartzentrubers, you may find that you have more in common than you think.

Just as a side note, there's nothing I love more than sitting on the back porch in the evening and listening to the horses klopping down the road. I'm just a romantic at heart I guess. I think you will also find that an eighth grade educated Amish child in most cases is far more advanced intellectually than and English child mainly because they don't watch TV while growing up..... they read. Yes, I said read. Can you believe it?

Grove r    Posted 11-15-2003 at 06:08:59       [Reply]  [No Email]
'Mornin', Over The Hill, Doc, we don't have the Amish in this area, but what we do have are Hutterites, and Mennonites, both groups live in colonys, and are deeply religious, in their own right, they do subscribe to our way of living as far as farming practices, no horses, tend to be very self sufficient, which doesn't do much for local economy. They have, on occasion, helped out other farmers when in need, due to illness or death, and that is about as far as it goes on the community spirit end of it. They even do their schooling, which doesn't help intagration, could be good or thing I will say for them, they are hard working people.

have a gooder, R.E.L.

Grove r    Posted 11-15-2003 at 06:07:52       [Reply]  [No Email]
'Mornin', Over The Hill, Doc, we don't have the Amish in this area, but what we do have are Hutterites, and Mennonites, both groups live in colonys, and are deeply religious, in their own right, they do subscribe to our way of living as far as farming practices, no horses, tend to be very self sufficient, which doesn't do much for local economy. They have, on occasion, helped out other farmers when in need, due to illness or death, and that is about as far as it goes on the community spirit end of it. They even do their schooling, which doesn't help intagration, could be good or thing I will say for them, they are hard working people.

have a gooder, R.E.L.

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