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Country Discussion Topics
To add your comments to this topic, click on one of the 'Reply' links below.

4 X 4's, The Whimps are taking over.
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Spence    Posted 11-25-2001 at 16:56:29       [Reply]  [No Email]
Well, just thought I'd open a thread on 4 X 4's and try to tap in on everyone's experience with them.

I loved them from the 3rd Div days back in 63
when I was a jeep driver. Had a licence for a deuce and a half,3/4 and PC as well but never drove them. The jeep came a long way since then and all in all they,ve lost their toughness. They
tell me the Wrangler is close to the original, but never had one myself. Owned a IH Scout 4 cyl, slow rever that was a real work horse. You could have a square dance on the piston surface they were so huge. Shook and complained going down the highway but if someone was in a ditch in a blizzard, it would pull them out with no problem, a real tank. Had a 71 Bronco with a 302, standard. Muscle truck for it's weight. I liked that too but for all the years I had it, it had a tiny squeel somewhere that no one could pin point.

Now we have the made-for-the-cottage SUV's
and their dwarfs the mini SUV's, tracker,rav,etc.
Just saw a new Tracker the other day, it was coming up on me in the right lane nice and slow. Looked kinda good, me thinks "mmmmm, nice lines, alot of head room,clearance,...." then it passes me and I had to laugh. They stuck the gas tank at the rear with 2 or 3 inches below clearance and gift wrapped that with a plastic shield!!!.

I think one of the best clearance 4X4 "cars" was the AMC Eagle, although they say it was hard on gas. All clearance car 4X4's should be like that. A little tough on the ladies with mini skirts I guess. I'm staying away for the Subaru's and the other 4X4 wanna bees.

The SUV's are too fancy for my liking, although I still have a feeling somewhere for the cherokee. Had a 76 wagon once with a straight six. It towed my 18ft trailer across country without a complaint.

My wife just loves the RAV. For a lady it's OK I guess. Fine for getting out of city slush.
I'm just worried about all the japanese gizmos
and wiring under the hood. I think I noticed a
3/4 drive shaft that went from the trans to the
wheel I think! .....3/4inch Yikes, nothing under an inch I'd think!!

The days of the completely manual 4X4 is
gone now. Electric circuits do the differential
engaging, so the driver doesn't break his nails on
locking hubs. The tin is just that. I opened a
can of peas the other day that had thicker metal. Now your crazy if you don't undercoat. It used to
be an option remember?. All exposed CV joints
protected with rubber boots, and the ads show them going thru brush! The drivers manuals used to cover topics about plowing fields with the vehicle and other farm use topics.

Where's all this going to end up guys.?


Frank    Posted 03-17-2003 at 08:56:52       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Well, I have to agree that alot of the 4X4's today are pretty wimpy. I too had a International Scout with an old four cylinder that looked more like a tractor motor. It was tough as nails, no highway car, but it wasn't meant to be. I wish I had never let that Scout get away, it was fun to drive and in the summer we kept the top off. I have to say the Jeeps are still pretty tough. I had a 95 Wrangler and it was fun to drive and can still go about anywhere with plenty of good ground clearance. I am now on my third Isuzu Trooper. Its a 1991 4X4 that was built when the Troopers were still practical, great ground clearnace and pretty tough. It has a Chevy V6 in it. But the new ones are a joke, way too expensive and built for the fancy Yupe crowd that want to drive something that says 4X4, of course they never use it. Most of the new 4X4's are just for show, very rarely do most of these vehicles ever get put in four wheel drive mode. Oh well, I guess they are building what the people want but give me an older Trooper, a good ole Jeep, or man, one more old Scout in my life!


Elena    Posted 03-06-2003 at 21:28:15       [Reply]  [No Email]
Well, I'll tell ya what, all this talk about the new stuff not being as good as the old kinda ruffles my feathers to a point.

See, I've had the old stuff. Had an old early 80's F150 catch on fire under the dash b/c of unshielded wiring. Burnt to the ground.

Had those locking hubs come unlocked on me in my Bronco when I hit the wheel with a fricking rock, causing me to get stuck.

But ya know what I ain't ever had? I ain't ever had my New Jeep Wrangler cause me no problems at all. It's been hit by 3 European drivers while being over here in England, smashed all the steering arms and ripped off the stabilizer, and it still got me home, just a little slower than usual.

That 4.0L fuel injected engine has yet to let me down on any range of needing power. As low as it's geared, and with a lift kit and oversized tires, it'll still do 80mph on the highway. (If you've got the nerve to hang on.)

I've caught 6" diameter sapling trees on the bumper, and all it did was rip the plastic end piece off. The bumper ain't even bent.

I've had it buried to the windows in mud, taking 3 trucks to pull me out, but it still drove me home.

You guys fight your carbs that like to crap out whenever they feel like it. You keep your locking hubs that come unlocked if they bump into something, you keep you lousy heater when the whole vehicle is an icicle.

I'll keep my fuel injection, shift on-the-fly t-case, well heated, nice stereo equipped machine, that is more than capable of doing more than just about any of your old vehicles. I bash it around so hard people give me funny looks when they hear I'm still making payments.

The damn thing runs better when it's muddy, and dented. You keep your old clunkers, I've had my fill of them. Never again, I'll keep something that's actually gonna make it past 100,000 miles without breaking all the time!


basod    Posted 02-19-2004 at 22:53:50       [Reply]  [No Email]
your problem with the old models is that you had fords.


Sai-Yun Xiang [San Francisco, CA]    Posted 10-07-2002 at 15:45:58       [Reply]  [No Email]
I like SUVs so long as they are not import. Hate the stupid BMW X5 and Acura MDX. They worthless yuppie station wagons.

Favorite is Hummer, Jeep, Ford, Chevy/GMC. Roll my 35" Goodrich tires over Volkswagen Jetta that gets in my way.


Ana (MO)    Posted 09-02-2002 at 07:00:10       [Reply]  [Send Email]
The thing that bothers me about the great popularity of SUV's is that people are not taught HOW to drive them. We have more rollovers than I've ever known possible (winter and summer). They try to drive them like a little sports car! And they want them so big that they will kill the other person, not themselves! Great idea, hugh? AND now they are so expensive, that we people who actually need a 4X4 to get out our roads can not afford them. Thanks a lot, suburbanites!


John    Posted 09-23-2002 at 18:39:33       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Maybe if today's SUVs felt like trucks, I would not have seen a black Chevy Suburban with blacked-out windows hurtling down I-95 at close to 90 mph. I was doing 75, and he blew by me like I was standing still. To make it worse, he was pulling a sailboat with a full keel, the deck of which had to be 12 feet above the pavement. The drive was probably oblivious to all this, in his air-conditioned Dolby-stereo leather-interior. I hate to think what would have happened if he'd had to maneuver suddenly.

I liked our old 4-cyl IH Scout; it would go anywhere, got decent milage, and if you went over 50 mph it made enough of a racket to keep you alert.


Mark in Ely, NV    Posted 05-13-2002 at 11:08:40       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Here are our home's 4x4s;

I drive a 1970 GMC Custom 1/2 ton short bed 4x4.
It has a 350 4 bolt main engine, 373 posi in the rear and 373 in the front, 4-barrel, 350 tranny, rust in the rockers and it will climb just about anything.
My wife drives a 1998 Jeep Cherokee Sport 4x4.
3 inch Pro-Comp lift, BFGoodrich 31x10.50 tires on Eagle alloys. It too can go most places and it still has a solid front axle and a "real" transfer case unlike the new breed of "push button" all wheel drives out their. I think they call them urban yuppie SUVs.
No cars in our house, no place to use them around the area.
Mark


Redneck    Posted 03-16-2002 at 16:36:31       [Reply]  [No Email]
A few of the new tech things are something else,but I'm from the old school on lots of things.I had a 79 CJ5,lockers front and rear,32 inch mudders.When we wanted to go riding,we would hook up the VW rail to the back,go as far as the jeep would go,unhook,get on the rail and go on to some serious riding.Haven't seen many 4x4's that could stay with a rail.


Mike in Va.    Posted 02-27-2002 at 13:24:45       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Good to read the thoughts on this topic.

We've got an 83' Suburban 4x4 with the 6.2 diesel. Put stiffer off road shocks under it. Went with the stock 8" rims and 32" tires. It is a half ton, but we pulled a 55hp. diesel tractor from Mass. to Va. with it and didn't know it.
Looks like hell, put don't worry so much about that when we bring it down through the creekbed and up through the briars.

I came up on a salesman on a curve one rainy day. He overshot the road and popped out through a corn field. I pulled over and walked out to him. He was on his cell phone calling AAA. Asked him if he wanted me to tug him out. He was in a new Ford Explorer. He looked back at the old Burb and said "With that?!!" he he... Well, I carry a 85K
towing chain and I backed out to him and hooked him up. Told him to put her in reverese and keep his wheels moving but not to spin them. Just as we began to roll he opened his door and bent down to look at his rearend... and spun his wheels.
I don't think a dry cleaner will ever get his suit clean. Not ever.
We get good fuel economy too, in overdrive and keeping my foot out of it...


Ludwig    Posted 12-04-2001 at 10:58:02       [Reply]  [No Email]
Tell you what, you can replace points and condensor all day. I'll take the electronic ignition.
You can fiddle with the carb all week. Listen, it only chokes a bit when you're tryin to keep the hammer down and the doors pointed down and the headlights are skyward. Me? I'll have fuel injection.
You can get 10mpg with a 150hp Chevy 350. My Dakota pushes 20mpg with that 200+hp 318.
You can get out and slog around in the cold locking hubs, I'll just pull the lever for 4wd.
You can ride in the CJ with the heater on full and a roll of paper towels to clean the windershield. The YJ (bad old square headlights) Wrangler can at least keep me warm.

Its all about what you want to do. You want to drive or work all week for the gas?
My dad's got a Tracker and you'd be hard pressed to follow it with a stock CJ in the woods. Plus most stock CJs can't get near it on the highway, and you can actually hear the radio, not have your coffee spill all over you on every little bump either.

My Dakota goes 80 miles round trip every day. Sure, I'd love a '60 something CJ 5 with a detroit locker in the rear and an airlocker in the front, but I still wouldn't want to commute with it. I'd probably either put in a new engine or update the old one too. Theres some new technology you just can't beat.


Hal/WA    Posted 11-29-2001 at 18:48:00       [Reply]  [No Email]
It all depends on what you want to do with the machine. If you live out in the boonies up a mountain and have to go to work in town every day, it makes sense to have a 4x4 that will reliably get you there and yet not break the bank at the gas station. The only vehicles that do that are the small carlike units, mostly imports. In my area, I see many Subarus and Toyotas being used for year around car duty. On the other hand, if you need something that will haul a serious load, the full size 3/4 or 1 ton domestic pickup is the only way to go. They can even be fairly economical, if you have the money to buy the diesel engine. If you just use your 4x4 for hunting or exploring, an old jeep is hard to beat. But I would hate to put up with one for my only transportation. For my own needs, a rebuilt 84 Ford F250 SuperCab 4x4 with a strong 460 and C6 fills the bill. It hauls my 11 foot camper or anything else I have tried at highway speeds and never seems like it is woring hard. It has been dead reliable. It will go most places that I want to go and get me back out again. The mileage is not good, but I don't use it every day and only put on 5 or 6 thousand miles a year. And best of all, I don't have the price of a small house invested in it!!!


Dan O    Posted 04-15-2002 at 13:04:44       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Hi, I was wondering what Kind of mileage you do get with that C6 and 460, cuz I am looking at buying an 83 F-250 with a 460/C6, but standard cab 4x4. WHat kind of mileage you think I'm lookin' at? It is carbed and no emissions.
Thanks
DanO


Jon D    Posted 11-29-2001 at 17:58:57       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Great topic. It makes me laugh to see all these yuppies buy these 4X4s and park them in their paved driveway. However, I look around and I ask my self what alternetive is there to these things. You can total a modern day car from literally hitting a rabit. What I would like to see is those desingners going back to the 1950s and build some of those cars again. The only reason they stopped making them is because of bad gas mileage, but that has been solve with the advances in tecnology. Now, those would sell.


edog    Posted 05-15-2003 at 13:39:19       [Reply]  [No Email]
No, the cost of adding more material plus lower milage plus poor accel. etc, you get my point.


Gary    Posted 11-28-2001 at 05:39:12       [Reply]  [Send Email]
If your looking for the no whimp 4x4, nothing beat a Mercedes Benz Unimog. Everthing from an older gas powered model 404 http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rimogs/graphics/404rweb.jpg under $10k, to the Huge 2450 diesel http://www.eurotech-services.com/lostworld.html or if you have an unlimted budget a custom a maximog http://maximog.com/



Spence - Lada Cossack    Posted 11-29-2001 at 08:53:54       [Reply]  [No Email]
Hey, that's right almost forgot those. They
made em in pickup box and jeep variety. They look
kinda strange. The german army had a lot of them
on maneuvers back then. Probably made in the tipical german precision.

No doubt they're up with the rest of the best.

Stay away from the Lada, Cossack. I went to
see them in a showroom when the Russians were
trying to break into the market. Someone put a pan on the floor to catch drips.
But on the other hand some say they've had no
problems.


Salmoneye    Posted 11-28-2001 at 07:45:25       [Reply]  [Send Email]
UNIMOG Is God!!!


Gary    Posted 11-27-2001 at 05:17:09       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I spent 15 minutes arguing with a lady stuck in a snow bank that she didnt have 4WD on here SUV.

She was so mad her 4wd couldnt get out of the snow bank. When I told her she said all SUV's have 4wd.



Taylor Lambert    Posted 11-26-2001 at 16:35:56       [Reply]  [No Email]
I had an 86 Jeep Cherokee Laredo up until April 23 I hit an 18 wheeler i believe it saved my life But i do miss it i have its remains behind the shop waitng to be reincarnated. I liked it because it had the 4.0 straight six and both axles could lock together. I bought it from my mom who loves anything Jeep. I like her 96 cherokee because its got a straight six and posi axles but it lacks the towing package.
Dad was a Bronco owner in the 70s when 4 wheel drives were tough. We used to have many a tropies from weekend tough truck and muddy rally competitions. Well yall have a nice one


big fred    Posted 11-26-2001 at 08:45:02       [Reply]  [No Email]
I sure hear you on the electric shift transfer case. My '90 Ranger has electric transfer case but manual hubs, go figger. They managed to replace a nice little lever with a simple linkage with two switches, two idiot lights, a motor, two limit switches, a computer and a couple electrical connections. Biggest problem I have is that the limit switches get out of alignment, so the computer thinks it is already in 4WD so it won't shift it.


magpie    Posted 11-26-2001 at 08:07:04       [Reply]  [No Email]
Interesting subject Spence! I have an 62 CJ-5 it is totally stock with 3 options, It has the full bench seat, the heavy duty 10 inch clutch, and a PTO operated ramsey winch. It also has a full metal cab, which of course is removeable. This is a pretty good rig, kind of slow on the highway, I never take it over 50. For what it was designed for it is hard to beat. I also own a 70 dodge power wagon W200 it has a 318 engine and standard 4 speed trans. Have never had a bit of mechanical trouble with it, although fighting the rust is an ongoing task. I have a mig and keep a supply of sheet metal on hand. I have had some bad luck with new 4x4 vehicles in that if they have automatic hubs or electronic shift transfer cases, you may find yourself walking home. That crap will fail when you need it the most. In this country here you need a vehicle you can depend on. I wouldn't take a new one off the pavement. I will keep my old timers forever.


susan    Posted 11-05-2002 at 21:14:28       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Hey magpie............I have had some bad luck with new 4x4 vehicles in that if they have automatic hubs or electronic shift transfer cases, you may find yourself walking home. That crap will fail when you need it the most. In this country here you need a vehicle you can depend on...................How much of this is reality and how much is opinion ??? You state you have had some bad luck with modern vechicles, while pledging your allegence to old trucks, never once stating an actual problem "you've" had . What gives ??? Sounds like you need to overstate your opinion because you feel unsure of your self and need to hide behind a macho steriotype. eg....My truck rides like s#it and my fingers are numb from lack of heat and my carbrettor is icing up and I gotta stop fer gas again......BUT BOY AM I A MAN.........Had to deal with that cr@p in junior high.......I'll never drive crap vehicles again..........nope thats what a job is fore to afford all the modern inconviences....... does your wife beat your clothes on a rock down by the river????.......SHE DOES?????? sorry,,,,,, first buy her a washin machine, THEN buy your self a new truck and shave your monobrow boy your steppin into the 20th century. Thankya!


magpie    Posted 11-26-2001 at 08:01:30       [Reply]  [No Email]
Interesting subject Spence! I have an 62 CJ-5 it is totally stock with 3 options, It has the full bench seat, the heavy duty 10 inch clutch, and a PTO operated ramsey winch. It also has a full metal cab, which of course is removeable. This is a pretty good rig, kind of slow on the highway, I never take it over 50. For what it was designed for it is hard to beat. I also own a 70 dodge power wagon W200 it has a 318 engine and standard 4 speed trans. Have never had a bit of mechanical trouble with it, although fighting the rust is an ongoing task. I have a mig and keep a supply of sheet metal on hand. I have had some bad luck with new 4x4 vehicles in that if they have automatic hubs or electronic shift transfer cases, you may find yourself walking home. That crap will fail when you need it the most. In this country here you need a vehicle you can depend on. I wouldn't take a new one off the pavement. I will keep my old timers forever.


F14...Best 4-wheelin' advice I ever got...    Posted 11-26-2001 at 07:35:08       [Reply]  [No Email]
"Leave it in 2WD til ya get stuck, then put it in 4wd and GO HOME!"


Ludwig    Posted 12-04-2001 at 10:49:56       [Reply]  [No Email]
Thats fer sure, full time 4x4 just gonna get you into a worse hole than you can get out of.


Salmoneye    Posted 11-26-2001 at 09:39:03       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Dad has had full size AMC Wagoneers since 1965 (still only on his 3rd one).
One of the few pieces of advice he ever gave me about anything was...

"Four wheel drive makes ya go...It don't make ya stop".

Learn it.
Know it.
Live it...


Salmoneye    Posted 11-26-2001 at 03:03:31       [Reply]  [Send Email]
The AMC Eagle had the same engine as the standard CJ7 which was a 258 straight 6. Pull all the smog junk and I can get 19 highway out of em and they will pull all day ta boot.

The best CJ ever built was the 'Mighty 8' aka the Scrambler. Had a longer wheel base than the 7 and a small 'pickup' style box in the back. Put a rear locker and 30 inch tires on one and you will impress even the most jaded 4WD enthusiast.

As for the new 'Wranglers' they do have one thing that the CJs had and that is front end articulation. With the front sway bar disconnected (offroad only!) it takes a heck of a lot of travel to get the offside wheel off the ground. Stay away from the Chrysler built 'square eyes' which are the 87-96 rectangular headlight Wranglers. In plain english...they are junk.

Round eyes good...Square eyes bad...


Spence    Posted 11-26-2001 at 06:22:15       [Reply]  [No Email]
I remember on maneuvers in Hohenfelds, Germany
we were in a force march. The guys were in columns on both side of the road. I was headed for HQ company to pick up my CO. One guy asked for a lift. It ended up I had eight on the back and 2 in the front. The little jeep didn't even whimper.

Another time I was driving for a whacked out young lieutenant. Following this mountain on
the left he got fed up because he couldn't find a road to get to the other side. We made a 90 degree
and headed up the mountain on a logging path. I had to make 3 dead runs mud flying all over only to find out after a way in that it came to a dead end. He told me to go up sideways and follow the contour.
I told this commissioned officer of his hair brained scheme. I suggested we tie two ropes to
trees as guy ropes just in case. Nope!. Surprised at my rebuke from a 17 year old, and now even more determined, he said try it anyway. We went along at a snails pace with him dangling from the left rear like on a sail boat and me doing the same and still trying to keep my control of brake and clutch. The jeep wanted to go over, but did it's job right up to the summit, zig zagging through the trees.

Don't need a war to risk your life for Uncle
Sam.


Salmoneye    Posted 11-26-2001 at 09:35:55       [Reply]  [Send Email]
No You Don't!

But...Would ya trade that memory for anything?

;-)


Nathan(GA)    Posted 11-25-2001 at 19:36:57       [Reply]  [No Email]
Spence, it'd be nice if you could still buy something like the old early 50's Dodge power wagon. Them things are tough and look good too.

I've had several 4x4's. The best being a '72 chevy blazer. It would go. Hopped up 350 4 speed and 38.5" tires. I found that 2nd gear in high range and foot on the floor would get through any mud with the practically bald tires. The new ones I put on later just dug in. The old ones had just enough lugs on the side to grip, but not dig a hole.

A 4x4 without a limited slip or posi rear is about like teats on a boar hog!


basod    Posted 02-19-2004 at 23:12:36       [Reply]  [No Email]
thats funny my 4x4 is on a 72' chevy 3/4 frame. Originally a long bed but shortened to fit a solid '65 chevy truck cab and stepside bed, I custom made the body lift bored a 350 .30 over added a 3spd auto, short gears of course, and a new set of 40" Super swamper TSL's. Probably the best tire on the market alittle noisy but '65 model year registration has no emmisions limitations so cherry bombs are welded directly to the headers (some extension for the transfer case)which with what I assume is well over 300hp the 350 and some stout gears gladly barks the 40"s in second. And practical it isn't, but a head turner it is theres no reason for suspension lift it'll straddle a 20"+ log no problem. Its a toy and a fun one at that, I don't expect it to get me to work though it will on occasion, for the road my choice is my caddy STS. Imagine a two 300hp vehicles one luxurious and comfortable one rough and tough as a box of nails residing in the same driveway. And to the next stupid little jap-burner car that pulls up next to me at a red light with their over sized dumb sounding muffler I'm going to run over plastic piece of junk with my bad-bowtie, or blow your doors off with an american made cadillac.


Franz    Posted 11-26-2001 at 17:12:30       [Reply]  [Send Email]
You can still get them good ones, you just can't afford the gas to drive from station to station. I've got a 52 Dodge M-37 military, with a 318 shoehorned in, driving them 5.86 rears, and a winch on the front, just in case she sinks.
I also have a 66 Chevy, the last year they built real 4WD with a center mounted transferr case and enclosed front axel. That one has a 283 with 17" tires, and pushes a 9 foot snow plow withut a problem.


bulldinkie    Posted 10-25-2003 at 08:51:33       [Reply]  [Send Email]
My husband bought a dodge power wagon about a year ago. Hes restoring it.Its a 1941.a good many guys in our family work at the power wagon co.in Iowa


magpie    Posted 11-29-2001 at 13:27:43       [Reply]  [No Email]
Franz, that 66 is probably the best looking G.M. ever built. In 67 the body styling along with everything else sure started going down. Hang on to that rig.


Spence    Posted 11-26-2001 at 05:59:00       [Reply]  [No Email]
Yeah, they made em tough in those days. You raise a good question. What happened to those
tires with teeth.? Now they're the winter bias
and you can't squeeze a dime between threads.

They claim it's to keep road noise down. Give me the noise in a blizzard anyday.

Can't find any military tires anywhere. Used to be an army surplus place in these parts a while back.


Bob(WI)    Posted 11-25-2001 at 17:19:57       [Reply]  [No Email]
Now you forgot the sure footed traction which translates into drive like its a dry road when it's snowy and icy, same with front wheel drive yes they take off good but they don't stop for shutt when ya need but them yuppies keep driving 70mph when 30 mph is to fast.
The only thing FWD does is get ya deeper in the ditch.


LazyHorse    Posted 11-25-2001 at 17:14:04       [Reply]  [No Email]
I like 4x4's especially in a full sized truck. But I will say most folks who get em don't know how to drive and ya can get a 4x4 stuck a whole lot worse than a good 2x4. I had a 78 chevy blazer I loved, but couldn't keep a front end u joint in the darn thing. My current truck is an 83 Chevy C20 2x4. The wife got it buried to the axles in a wet field last winter and couldn't get her out. I jumped in, rocked it back and forth a couple of times and gave her heck and she walked right out of that muddy field.


brian    Posted 11-26-2001 at 16:24:14       [Reply]  [No Email]
the wife or the truck?


Jack Fisher    Posted 11-27-2001 at 18:13:33       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I noticed you mentioned Subarus in the first comment string... an old girlfriend and I had a 98 Subaru Forester AWD, and while the thing could get through damn near any trail we took it on, or plow straight through snow like crazy, it just didnt sit up high enough. The clearance was very good 8-10" from what I remember, but the biggest tires i could squeeze in there were 225/70/15, and that was againt every tire sellers judgement. matter of fact i had to have my brother mount and balance them cause the tire manager at sears refused to do it. Now I've got an '87 F250 and it's the best truck i've ever had. while it's only a 2x4; between the mass and bein' geared so low it can pretty well move through, up or around anything.


bulldinkie    Posted 10-25-2003 at 08:45:56       [Reply]  [Send Email]
I have a new cadillac escallade it is no wimpy vehicle.Im very pleased with the handeling,comfort,0-60 in 9 sec.beautiful suv.I had 2 other suv before this.Im a very satisfied customer.


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