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Country Discussion Topics
To add your comments to this topic, click on one of the 'Reply' links below.

As if!!
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Aprille    Posted 02-08-2004 at 14:14:05       [Reply]  [Send Email]
It doesn't matter if your family was here since the stinkin ice age.or the 1700's..or the 1800's..facts is facts and screw PC..the indians didn't "get" the land from anyone!! They already HAD the land and when whoever's family "settled" here that land was TAKEN from them..treaties were signed when they shouldn't have been and greed was the enforcer..and I am not one BIT indian altho one of my kids are ..not a big deal ya reeeaaaallly didn't know huh?? Wow..hmm..I probly shouldn't mention the book about Abe Lincoln that points to how much he actually disliked black people and how much he actually liked the N word..nahhh..I ain't mentioning that..

Battleborn    Posted 02-08-2004 at 19:34:07       [Reply]  [No Email]
Ok, we give up, we'll give the whole continent back and move to London.

Get real, people have stolen land from each other since the dawn of time. Indians stole land from each other, and we took it from them.

The day my tax dollars start going to reparations is the day I stop taking them (FORMAL reparations, not the shyly hidden ones we make now). The day that someone tries to give my land back will be the day someone truly regrets.

bohdan pikas    Posted 02-08-2004 at 16:55:02       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Indians weren't the first in North America.. a white man was. Bone discoveries and carbon dating puts them before the Indian. Do your research.

dave 50 8n    Posted 02-08-2004 at 23:06:00       [Reply]  [No Email] I understood that anthropologically (sp?) speaking, the American Indians (Central and Southern too) are...Asian...came across that northern Aleutian Island chain way back least 40 years ago.

Indians fought each other all the time...why? Greed, power...status. Gee, I guess those things know no color. In fact at the Battle of the Big Horn, Custer had Indian Scouts on his side. I think they vamoosed when they saw "the writing in the wall."

...and please no one say there are more than three races....

Salmoneye    Posted 02-09-2004 at 03:33:18       [Reply]  [No Email]
The Polynesians crossed the oceans on reed boats to South America...

They are the ones that started the wonderful rights of cannibalism on the continent...

All theoretical of course...

dave 50 8n    Posted 02-09-2004 at 09:40:33       [Reply]  [No Email]
...interesting thought...never heard that, but it could be.... the way, Custer brother in law works w/someone who has a pistol from "The Rough Riders," the unlucky lead by the unwise at the Battle of the Little Big Horn.

Someone offered him $30k for it, and he turned it down. ow!

Jon(WI)    Posted 02-09-2004 at 15:29:25       [Reply]  [No Email]
Dave, I am somewhat confused as to your riddle. The "rough riders" were under T. Roosevelts comand and charged up Kettle Hill then down and up San Juan hill. Was a goup of soldier under Custer's comand also called "Rough Riders"? If so, I just learned a bit of history.

dave 50 8n    Posted 02-09-2004 at 19:07:25       [Reply]  [No Email]
...oops...I have no idea...that's what I get for repeating what I heard from bro-in law.

Do you think I can believe him on the pistol, too?

He said that it had markings to trace it back...I'll have to clarify this with him.

We found two old rifles in my in laws attic (while cleaning up), one an old cap and ball and what looks like an old carbine. My bro in law will ask the pistol guy about these and their worth. It was from my father in law's dad's collection from Iowa.

Salmoneye    Posted 02-09-2004 at 10:02:34       [Reply]  [No Email]
If it is authenticated...It should be worth more than that...

Ron/PA    Posted 02-08-2004 at 15:58:32       [Reply]  [No Email]
You mean the Indians MADE the land? If not, then they got it from someone!
A modern scientist went to heave and explained to God that he was no longer need, as man could do it all on his own.
Whe god suggested a contest making new life, he grabbed a hand full of dirt and made a man.
The scientist reached down and grabbed a hand full of dirt,,, and God said,,,, Nuh Uh,, first make yer own dirt!! hehehe,,,,
Mebbe Cochise did that huh?

deadcarp    Posted 02-08-2004 at 15:46:46       [Reply]  [No Email]
okay i'm willing to give my place back to its rightful owners. should i give it to the chippewas who had it for 100 years or the sioux they stole it from? or who ever had it before them? i think the problem started when christians brought their stewardship ideas along and nobody here claimed ownership. well hey! :)

they shoulda    Posted 02-08-2004 at 16:04:26       [Reply]  [No Email]
brought their own ship instead of using their stewards. (sorry, couldn't resist it)


Dave 2N    Posted 02-08-2004 at 15:45:50       [Reply]  [Send Email]
It don't matter anymore,Toots; that was then and this is now. And NOW means it's MINE!!!

Salmoneye    Posted 02-08-2004 at 15:13:37       [Reply]  [No Email]
"the indians didn't "get" the land from anyone!! They already HAD the land"

And just where do you think the 'Indians' came from again?

Come'on...You really DO know, don't you?...REALLY?


And as for Lincoln using the 'N' word...Everyone did in that day and age (ask old Sam Clemmens, One of the least 'prejudiced' people of the age)...It was not 'derogatory'...It was descriptive...Same as the word 'black' wasn't a 'slur' till recently...

Ron,Ar    Posted 02-08-2004 at 16:02:06       [Reply]  [No Email]
I know where they came from! First came, no thats bees, first came birds, no thats not right either, a momma bear, a pappa bear and a baby bear and somebody's been eating my grits. No not right there either, whats the question again? Oh, In the beginning God........

Oh sure...    Posted 02-08-2004 at 16:50:12       [Reply]  [No Email]
Blaming God HAD to be next... ;-)

Salmoneye, Who Saw The Writing On The Wall...Oh Wait...That Is Biblical Too...Son-Of-A-Gun...It All DID Start With God...

Paul, Whose Favourite Book Is Daniel

Dan 5:27 " TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting"

TO35    Posted 02-08-2004 at 16:58:05       [Reply]  [No Email]
The Bible code thing boggles the mind...


Salmoneye    Posted 02-08-2004 at 17:05:26       [Reply]  [No Email]
About a third the way down that page is a fairly long 'FLASH' presentation...Makes it a bit easier to follow the reasoning...I said A LITTLE lol...

It is quite boggling...And I am not a 'believer'...But dang...That is one wicked kool code...

I have not even started studying the Hand Code...

TO35    Posted 02-08-2004 at 17:09:31       [Reply]  [No Email]
I'll save it for when my mind is fresher...
its pretty dog on intresting....


Ron/PA    Posted 02-08-2004 at 15:02:05       [Reply]  [No Email]
Having enough indian blood to make me aware of the plight,, I'd say bull, they took the land from some other cave man, or tribe... to the victor goes the spoils.

problem is,    Posted 02-08-2004 at 14:51:49       [Reply]  [No Email]
in a lot of the country, the Indians were at war with each other and lands changed hands many times through the years. So, how can you say who owns what? Does traveling from one place to another infer land rights? This is not a cut and dried situation.

Dennis    Posted 02-08-2004 at 14:51:08       [Reply]  [No Email]
First of all the older Indians didn't understand how white eyes thought they could own land cause nobody could own land in their minds. Which is true. We only own the rights to use the land.
Some of the land "Ownership" was transfered from the Indians in MUTUAL satisfying deals or trades.

I really don't have a bit of "Guilt" cause I never owned any slaves. or made any treaties with Indians.

I don't care if Abe Lincoln disliked Negroes or what he called them.

I treat all people with respect they "Earn and Deserve". I don't like things or people because someone tells me to or not.

I am an equal opportunity Friend.

I am not "Angry" as a lot of people are and I accept people as they want me to accept them on an individual basis only, not as a group or a race or a religion.

Pi$$ on PC.

Jon(WI)    Posted 02-08-2004 at 14:59:04       [Reply]  [No Email]
Their you go, spreading false history about ole Abe. Did someone hear Abe say he hated negros? Did someone rewrite the causes of the Civil War because they felt guilty for being on the wrong side? History should be based on indisputable FACT. Those closest in history to the FACT have an obligation to be non judgemental and tell it like it is, not how they wish future generations to perceive it.

rhudson    Posted 02-08-2004 at 19:47:52       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Jon, what is the true history? is the explosion of the maine by the spanish the true history? is it true history that a nation fight against slavery in 1861 but try to conduct genocide on indians in 1895? those that are in power write the history. ever heard of the CSS merrimack? never was such a ship, so much for "history". i don't beleive that i was on either side. do you beleive that the states are divided?

Jon(WI)    Posted 02-09-2004 at 07:21:19       [Reply]  [No Email]
Rhudson, History can be molded to the advantage of those in power at the time events occur. Proof can also be twisted, depending on who examines the evidence. Trying not to get into transcendentalism theory, I would have to believe what has been time tested and "appears" to "fit" over time. Much truth is left out of history books today due to both liberal and conservative writers and publishers. This is why it is necessary for all of us to study all facts by reading both liberal and conservative view points and make up ones own mind.

deadcarp    Posted 02-08-2004 at 15:39:06       [Reply]  [No Email]
no, lincoln didn't hate blacks but like others of his generation and reading, he didn't comsider them equals (to whites) either. i know it sounds like splitting hairs but what he hated was slavery. he believed that if a man raised a crop and tended it, it was his to use or eat. he shouldn't have to have somebody else offer him some, it was already his. he didn't start a war and ride victory into the white house or something. instead he changed party affiliation, campaigned and debated, hired convention screamers to get attention drawn his way and pulled a few other tricks to get there. once he was in office, he tried to run a divided country but it wasn't working and he treasured the union so did what he felt was necessary to hold it together. :)

bill b va    Posted 02-08-2004 at 17:14:12       [Reply]  [No Email]

in other words he was a typical two faced ,forked tongue ,lying politician pulling the wool over the citizens eyes . we have not progressed far.

Jim n Minn    Posted 02-09-2004 at 07:23:15       [Reply]  [No Email]
Spoken like a true Virginian!

jf    Posted 02-08-2004 at 15:07:21       [Reply]  [No Email]
you are not a teacher are you? The curriculm now calls for the political correctness hence dumbing down our future citizens.

buck    Posted 02-08-2004 at 15:41:50       [Reply]  [No Email]

And has not all major civilizations done this. Not that I totally believe it but didn't some rulers/kings attempt to totally inolate any evidence of the presence of prior rulers. Did not the Romans set themselves up as superior and enslave all others. Did not the English attempt or rule/own the world and force their rules/customs upon all they conquered. Did not all these rulers record history that made them look good. Even our country connot get from one president to the next without attempting to make the previous into a lier and cheat. Oh well if I get up tomorrow I plan on cleaning up some ice and snow.

Jon(WI)    Posted 02-08-2004 at 14:48:14       [Reply]  [No Email]
Don/t fret about it Aprile. Indian Casinos is the white mans archelles tendon and the indians have known it for a century now. Check out a book at the library about Gambling in America. Indians were the first gamblers. ie: I bet that blanket I can shoot an arrow further than you. or I bet you two beaver pelts I can swim further than you. When the cowboys began teaching the Native Americans how to play poker on the range, the Cowboy usually lost his horse and saddle. This is no bull! it is documented fact. Indians to this day are gaining much of "their" land back thanks to the white mans gambling ways in indian Casinos.

buck    Posted 02-08-2004 at 14:47:02       [Reply]  [No Email]

First my wife may be part Cherokee. Now you are talking HISTORY and unless you are a lot older than most people the information you have is just what someone else passed down from years ago so you are dealing with an OPINION and not FACT. Facts are reserved for today and subject to change tomorrow and yesteday is just history.

Jon(WI)    Posted 02-08-2004 at 14:52:46       [Reply]  [No Email]
Depends on who writes the history. The Reagan movie CBS was to aire could have been taken as historical fact by many teenagers and niave adults if certain liberals in Holywood had had their way.

Aprille    Posted 02-09-2004 at 03:13:22       [Reply]  [Send Email]
Just for the sake of arguement..or debate as the case may be..Let's say that yes..and this is one truly owns the land..but again..let's look at what good ol Abe wrote..a Harvard professor..and fact he was black..did just that..come to find out that the Emancipation Proclamation was written for get him MORE votes..A lil unknown clause is the fact that YES a black man may tend his land and be a free man..IF his Master Chooses to free him or if he comes back from the service..Abe may have done alot of good things but from friends to Cabinet members..he was a racist..and I am not judging..I am not a teacher but I read extensively..believe me..I put my friends up in arms too..and even if that WAS the NORM..and how GROTESQUE is that?? call a man by that doesn't mean that everyone had to follow suit and do that JUST to seem MANLY!! I am in this same discussion with people who know me on a daily basis..because THEY use the N word and say bad things about other races which doesn't make me a popular person but..OH WELL..luckily they find it slightly amusing when they speak that way and I start sputtering..heeheehe..otherwise I would probably have even fewer friends than I do..but I found this to be a great discussion!! Huggs all!!

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